Pacquiao has a better resume than Duran!

[BM dnobagaV]

I'm not going to be a snob and pretend like Pacquiao doesn't belong in the conversation with these past greats. But with Duran you have to look at the timing. You can't just list the names.

His ATG run at lightweight, victory over the #1 fighter in the world, in his prime and moving up to beat Iran Barkley with no catchweight gives him the edge.

Pac has some great wins and is an ATG in his own right but some of those wins were against past prime fighters and were at catchweights where the opponent was clearly less than 100%.

Again, Duran is clearly a Top Twenty ATG.
But it's the argument of longevity and quantity as well as quality. How many champs/former champs has Pacquiao beat in comparison to Duran?
Partly why I don't think Chavez' record is very impressive. A lot of bums.
Also why I think Floyd has an great resume just in terms of all the names.

Who did Duran beat during his LW reign? Does it even compare to Pacquiao's accomplishments of being a champion in 6 divisions as well as beating 3 other ATG's? Strictly holding to their 147-under careers, Pacquiao beat far more names that were equally, if not more impressive.

Say Duran's peak was more impressive, but his climb(LW) isn't on par with Pacquiao's and his fall(post-SRL) definitely isn't as impressive.

[Elotero]

You're saying he isn't an ATG?

Speaking of circuses, What did PT Barnum say? Theres a sucker born every minute.



catchweights, past prime fights, ped allegations followed by lackluster fights, shoulder-gate - the list goes on. i vote No on ATG and YES as media creation.

[Strategic1]

I really like Duran and he's an all time great and one of my favs...but one thing I know...Pac would never say 'no mas'

[Strategic1]

Ok I understand people not giving pac credit for his "8th division" title against Margs. He didn't defend the belt and it was at a catchweight.

At the same time, Pac if I remember correctly pretty much skipped Super flyweight and bantamweight... He would've got titles there if he competed. So 8 division titles is fine IMO.

But anyways...wtf... let's just say he held belts in 7 weight classes. That's freaking insane still.

That's like imagining a Magdaleno, Oscar Valdez, Frampton, Santa Cruz, or Gary Russell Jr. ...going all the way to 147 and competing.

...Just be real... the man is 5 foot 6 and 90% of the time, he faces boxers who are taller, weigh heavier (or naturally physically bigger), and have reach advantages over him.

[Strategic1]

If pac stayed at any length of time at 135 and 140... he would've dominated those divisions and he'd be an ATG in those divisions. The only guy in his way would've been JMM.

and IMO, pac might've done better against JMM ...compared to pac-jmm 3 and 4... You have to remember before the 3rd and 4th fights... Pac got some wear and tear from facing big guys like Margarito and Clottey. He dominated them, but he was never the same after.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Continuing on from the SRL-Money thread...

I want to point out that Manny has a better overall body of work compared to Duran's. Far better, actually.

Looking at Duran's signature wins, he has:
Jesus x2
Buchanan
SRL
Barkley
Palomino
Cuevas

Pacquiao, by comparison, has:
Barrera x2
Marquez x2
Morales x2
Bradley x2
Margarito
ODLH
Cotto
Hatton
Ledwaba
Not to mention a hell of a lot more quantitative quality, including being an 8-division champ as well as P4P in his late 30's.

Duran has the greater win over SRL, no comparison, but this is the same argument with Leonard-Floyd. Quality, at some point, doesn't beat the amount of quantity+quality that Floyd or Manny have.
Not to mention the losses that Duran also has in numbers...

Could you say that he was a better fighter than Manny? Arguably, sure, but you can't debate that his resume is inferior...

First off, the 8 division thing? Come on, now. The CWs were ridiculous. Duran never asked for a CW.

Secondly, Pac beat a fading Barrera the first time and a much faded Barrera the second time. His wins over Morales were great no doubt. Ledwaba isn't even worth mentioning- very mediocre.

And Duran had a lot of losses? Hhm. Well, the first one against Dejesus was right after Duran got injured in a car wreck back when boxers didn't drop out of a fight for a cold. Also, he crushed Dejesus in the rematches in fights that were competitive but where Duran clearly demonstrated his superiority over a great opponent. And he first Camacho fight? Clearly a robber. The Pat Lawlor defeat? Duran threw his shoulder out. The Benitez fight? Duran clearly wasn't focused or even motivated and Benitez trained his arse off for it, out of his fear of Duran. Hearns, Duran took lightly, which was a huge mistake. In the third Leonard fight, he no longer had the legs to chase Leonard down, but he did score with the only meaningful punch in the fight where he cut Leonard wide open. The Robbie Sims and Kirkland Laing upsets were from Duran not being in shape, which is his fault, but that's the point. Duran beat himself more times than any fighter could have done that he ever faced. But Duran coming in at one hundred percent and ready for his opponent rarely if ever, actually lost.

And the names on Duran's list-Leonard, Dejesus, Buchannan, Cuevas, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, were all world class guys, the majority of which were naturally much bigger than Duran. He blazed through everybody he fought at 135. He only slipped with age and higher weights. I know Pac started at 112 and all, but he didn't stay there long and bypassed a few divisions to 122 and so forth. He was killing himself to make 112 to begin with.

They both have excellent resumes, but I don't know. Duran fought anybody and everybody for 35 freaking years. Pac's not even done yet and from what I've seen, no, Duran has him beat. Maybe one day, but not yet. Pac never went 15 rounds either and he's not exactly unbeaten himself. Duran never got knocked out by nobodies either. And Marquez? Duran takes him all day long, by KO IMO.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Again, Duran is clearly a Top Twenty ATG.
But it's the argument of longevity and quantity as well as quality. How many champs/former champs has Pacquiao beat in comparison to Duran?
Partly why I don't think Chavez' record is very impressive. A lot of bums.
Also why I think Floyd has an great resume just in terms of all the names.

Who did Duran beat during his LW reign? Does it even compare to Pacquiao's accomplishments of being a champion in 6 divisions as well as beating 3 other ATG's? Strictly holding to their 147-under careers, Pacquiao beat far more names that were equally, if not more impressive.

Say Duran's peak was more impressive, but his climb(LW) isn't on par with Pacquiao's and his fall(post-SRL) definitely isn't as impressive.

How many belts are out there now compared to Duran's day? If the Fab Four were around now, my God, they'd all be like seven divisions, except for Hagler. And I have to say that even Freddy Roach said Duran would beat Pac.

[BM dnobagaV]

First off, the 8 division thing? Come on, now. The CWs were ridiculous. Duran never asked for a CW.

Secondly, Pac beat a fading Barrera the first time and a much faded Barrera the second time. His wins over Morales were great no doubt. Ledwaba isn't even worth mentioning- very mediocre.

And Duran had a lot of losses? Hhm. Well, the first one against Dejesus was right after Duran got injured in a car wreck back when boxers didn't drop out of a fight for a cold. Also, he crushed Dejesus in the rematches in fights that were competitive but where Duran clearly demonstrated his superiority over a great opponent. And he first Camacho fight? Clearly a robber. The Pat Lawlor defeat? Duran threw his shoulder out. The Benitez fight? Duran clearly wasn't focused or even motivated and Benitez trained his arse off for it, out of his fear of Duran. Hearns, Duran took lightly, which was a huge mistake. In the third Leonard fight, he no longer had the legs to chase Leonard down, but he did score with the only meaningful punch in the fight where he cut Leonard wide open. The Robbie Sims and Kirkland Laing upsets were from Duran not being in shape, which is his fault, but that's the point. Duran beat himself more times than any fighter could have done that he ever faced. But Duran coming in at one hundred percent and ready for his opponent rarely if ever, actually lost.

And the names on Duran's list-Leonard, Dejesus, Buchannan, Cuevas, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, were all world class guys, the majority of which were naturally much bigger than Duran. He blazed through everybody he fought at 135. He only slipped with age and higher weights. I know Pac started at 112 and all, but he didn't stay there long and bypassed a few divisions to 122 and so forth. He was killing himself to make 112 to begin with.

They both have excellent resumes, but I don't know. Duran fought anybody and everybody for 35 freaking years. Pac's not even done yet and from what I've seen, no, Duran has him beat. Maybe one day, but not yet. Pac never went 15 rounds either and he's not exactly unbeaten himself. Duran never got knocked out by nobodies either. And Marquez? Duran takes him all day long, by KO IMO.

Pacquiao beat a fading Barrera the first time.l? Wow.

Your entire post is irrelevant due to that horse**** you just spouted.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Continuing on from the SRL-Money thread...

I want to point out that Manny has a better overall body of work compared to Duran's. Far better, actually.

Looking at Duran's signature wins, he has:
Jesus x2
Buchanan
SRL
Barkley
Palomino
Cuevas

Pacquiao, by comparison, has:
Barrera x2
Marquez x2
Morales x2
Bradley x2
Margarito
ODLH
Cotto
Hatton
Ledwaba
Not to mention a hell of a lot more quantitative quality, including being an 8-division champ as well as P4P in his late 30's.

Duran has the greater win over SRL, no comparison, but this is the same argument with Leonard-Floyd. Quality, at some point, doesn't beat the amount of quantity+quality that Floyd or Manny have.
Not to mention the losses that Duran also has in numbers...

Could you say that he was a better fighter than Manny? Arguably, sure, but you can't debate that his resume is inferior...

Look, man. This is one of the weakest ages in the sport. The 2000s have all been weak. The decades before all had harder rules, fewer titles to win, fewer weight classes, etc. The sport isn't bringing out the best of the best by the way it's ran alone these days. Is that Pac's fault? No. Is it Mayweather's fault? Also, no. But it is the way it is. You really think they would have gotten as far they have in the 90s? 80s? 70s? Further back? Not a chance, man. Fighter nowadays are getting paid six figures for fights those guys got paid peanuts for. The fighters on Pac's resume you listed would not have gotten that far in those days. Barrera was fading. I didn't say he was done. But come on, the Barrera of 2000 and earlier would have given him a lot more trouble at that point. Back then everybody fought a lot more often and had shorter careers and yet, Duran fought for 35 years. That was incredibly rare back then and still is today. Duran had more longevity and his era was just tougher. It's no knock on Pac.

[Thraxox]

Look, man. This is one of the weakest ages in the sport. The 2000s have all been weak. The decades before all had harder rules, fewer titles to win, fewer weight classes, etc. The sport isn't bringing out the best of the best by the way it's ran alone these days. Is that Pac's fault? No. Is it Mayweather's fault? Also, no. But it is the way it is. You really think they would have gotten as far they have in the 90s? 80s? 70s? Further back? Not a chance, man. Fighter nowadays are getting paid six figures for fights those guys got paid peanuts for. The fighters on Pac's resume you listed would not have gotten that far in those days. Barrera was fading. I didn't say he was done. But come on, the Barrera of 2000 and earlier would have given him a lot more trouble at that point. Back then everybody fought a lot more often and had shorter careers and yet, Duran fought for 35 years. That was incredibly rare back then and still is today. Duran had more longevity and his era was just tougher. It's no knock on Pac.

It's a stretch to say Barrera was already fading, he was 28 years old coming of to the biggset wins on Hamed, Tapia, Ayala and Morales. Barrera only had 3 wars, that is Morales 1 and two and Agapito Sanchez, and got D'Qd by Jones. Pacquiao at 28 if we go by your logic is already fading because at that time he already fought how many wars in Marquez 1 2, Morales 1,2, Oscar Larios, Agapito Sanchez, Then Pacquiao was already way passed his prime the moment he entered Welterweight. Pacquiao at 28 had more Wars than Morales and Barrera.

Then also, after the Pacquiao bout, Barrera is then was going on a winnong streak of six, remaining to be a top 6 pound for pound fighter before losing to Juan Manuel Marquez. Barrera is far from fading, and he still won a War against Erik Morales after Pacquiao beat him up.