Comments Thread For: Warren: DeGale, Even With Jack Win, is Far Away From Calzaghe

[NEETzsche]

It's ok saying Lacy was no good in hindsight but you have to judge the fight on when it was signed and Lacy was seen as the man.

I'd say the opposite. Hindsight is a much better vantage point to judge a win from than to just go by hype, which only really serves to obscure the facts and is fleeting

If DeGale beats Jack comfortably then it's a better win than Joe's over Lacy

If he then fights and beats Smith, he will have done something that Calzaghe never did against his dangerous domestic rival, Carl Froch

But then Calzaghe still has the Kessler win and the two wins over aged legends (I mean Hopkins and Eubank - the Jones fight was meaningless) to his advantage. Though I personally consider the Hopkins fight a loss. And longevity has to count for something too. So it's a hard task for DeGale

[1g5a22]

Sorry but Degale already lost to Groves & Jack lost to a bum. Calzaghe v undefeated Kessler was a bigger fight and both are better fighters. Degales best win is Direll LOL Bute is ruined and nearly beat him..

JC>>>Degale.

[deathofaclown]

I'd say the opposite. Hindsight is a much better vantage point to judge a win from than to just go by hype, which only really serves to obscure the facts and is fleeting

Maybe so, but then it could be argued that it was Calzaghe that destroyed Lacy as a fighter and he was never the same, we'll ever know for sure. I think it was still a pretty good win when you consider a lot of people picked Lacy to win.

I'd say the Kessler win was Joe's only genuine win against a real prime top notch fighter, and i say that as a fan of Joe.

Bute, Jack and Dirrell are probably better than nearly all of Calzaghe's resume apart from a few.

[ultravividscene]

I can't count the Calzaghe-Jones fight as meaningless. Yes Jones wasn't as good as he once was and had lost the aura of invincibility. However he had never and still has never been as comprehensively outboxed, totally clowned and beaten up. You can't say age was an issue as they were both getting on and both had relied on their speed throughout their careers, speed which was diminishing. Power is the last thing you lose though and nobody but Calzaghe has given Jones free shots and laughed back in his face.

It was a meaningless fight despite the ring title, an exhibition at most and not too dissimilar to Hagler-Leonard... but what an exhibition it was.

I can't help thinking Calzaghes biggest enemy was Sky Sports. Boxing was no longer free to air while Sky and subscription satellite tv still a relatively new thing without the viewership it enjoys today. It took him years to start generating the money and interest needed to put himself in contention for the top fights. Unfortunately they were the same years most boxers hit their peak and he was essentially left treading water.

In his physical prime the only opportunities he got to go against the other title holders were immediately after they had lost theirs. A shame really as a super six style tourney back then could have been incredible.

[NEETzsche]

I can't count the Calzaghe-Jones fight as meaningless. Yes Jones wasn't as good as he once was and had lost the aura of invincibility. However he had never and still has never been as comprehensively outboxed, totally clowned and beaten up. You can't say age was an issue as they were both getting on and both had relied on their speed throughout their careers, speed which was diminishing. Power is the last thing you lose though and nobody but Calzaghe has given Jones free shots and laughed back in his face.

It was a meaningless fight despite the ring title, an exhibition at most and not too dissimilar to Hagler-Leonard... but what an exhibition it was.

It had been five years since Jones's last meaningful win when he fought Calzaghe, and then one year later he was stopped in one round by Danny Green

It was so ****** for Calzaghe to take that fight when he could've taken Pavlik or Dawson fights - both of which were high in demand at the time - and given the American audience a real glimpse of his ability and a real reason to celebrate him. I guarantee he'd much more fondly remembered now if he, instead of Hopkins, had been the one to expose Pavlik. Let's not forget how that win totally transformed the perception of B-Hop's career. It was only then that he finally started getting a bit of respect

[-Kev-]

Sorry but Degale already lost to Groves & Jack lost to a bum. Calzaghe v undefeated Kessler was a bigger fight and both are better fighters. Degales best win is Direll LOL Bute is ruined and nearly beat him..

JC>>>Degale.

One loss doesn't eliminate a fighter from being better than someone else.

Jones, Hopkins, Pacquiao, Marquez, Barrera, Morales just to name a few 1990s-2000s boxers who have losses and are greater than Calzaghe.

Even if you say it's who the loss was to, Pac lost to two complete no names who did nothing significant. MAB lost to Junior Jones. Morales lost to David Diaz and Zahir Raheem. Marquez lost his very first fight, so did Hopkins.

[-Kev-]

It had been five years since Jones's last meaningful win when he fought Calzaghe, and then one year later he was stopped in one round by Danny Green

It was so ****** for Calzaghe to take that fight when he could've taken Pavlik or Dawson fights - both of which were high in demand at the time - and given the American audience a real glimpse of his ability and a real reason to celebrate him. I guarantee he'd much more fondly remembered now if he, instead of Hopkins, had been the one to expose Pavlik. Let's not forget how that win totally transformed the perception of B-Hop's career. It was only then that he finally started getting a bit of respect

Yep Pavlik, Hopkins, Dawson and Johnson were all calling him out. Dawson made a public letter to Calzaghe after the Hopkins win and his Johnson win. Pavlik wanted to come up for Calzaghe, JC was straight up scared. Johnson was calling him out too. Instead he ducked all 4, Hopkins accepted the Pavlik challenge, and Dawson fought Tarver for the first time. Johnson ended up fighting journeyman Aaron Norwood. Crazy thing is, besides Hopkins, the other 3 were very winnable fights for Calzaghe and would've been looked at as better wins than a shot Roy Jones.

[thack]

Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath Joe was a very special fighter he had movement , stamina, chin and a decent dig and rare ability of throwing confusing punchers from all angles at speed ....a fighters nightmare Calzaghe would have stood his own in any era.James is good but seemed to go to sleep mid fight against Dirrell , Jack although not great would make him pay for a similar mistake he has good work rate.James has lots of work to do to get anywhere close to Joe's level , I doubt he can.

[ultravividscene]

Crazy thing is, besides Hopkins, the other 3 were very winnable fights for Calzaghe and would've been looked at as better wins than a shot Roy Jones.

Can't argue with that, all fights i would have loved to have seen. But the guy was at the very end of his career and the Jones fight obviously meant more for him and his bank balance than the other fights could muster. As i say jones had been beaten before, by KO, but never so emphatically clowned and outclassed.

We saw what happened to both Pavlik and Dawson when they got their chances, not too far removed from Lacey. If those fights had happened and we were remembering them now... well i imagine due credit would be in just as short a supply as the Lacey fight now gets

[285Kid]

Ok what's that all about?? What's the point of saying this we know a win tonight won put him next to Calzaghe yet