Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[robertzimmerman]

The fact is Dempsey would be too small to compete in today's HW division.

The fact is:

You haven't got a clue.


List the top 15 guys today, and tell me Jack couldn't have competed against them.

If Valuev was still active today, he'd be a top 10 fighter across the board.

Ruslan Chagaev beat him.


The right blend of skill and attributes can overcome even huge disparities in size.

[robertzimmerman]

are you still persisting with this argument when kigali is the only person agreeing with you, you should have realised you were wrong

I don't have to persist with it you fool.

If boxing progressed with each decade like some other sports do, then today's best fighters would be universally recognised as the greatest fighters of all time. Yet they're not. The top HW's today are no better than the best HW's of the 70's, 80's and 90's, from over 40 years ago.

[robertzimmerman]

robertzimmerman

jesus man...you still going?

i gave up 20 pages ago

Someone's got to try and educate these nuts.

[LoadedWraps]

He isn't faster than Dempsey.

He most certainly is, and even if he wasn't, it doesn't change anything, speed alone won't beat a fighter like Fury.

[robertzimmerman]

He most certainly is, and even if he wasn't, it doesn't change anything, speed alone won't beat a fighter like Fury.

What are you talking about?

Tyson is extremely fast FOR HIS size. But he isn't faster than Jack Dempsey was weighing under 200 pounds.

Stop being silly.

[LoadedWraps]

What are you talking about?

Tyson is extremely fast FOR HIS size. But he isn't faster than Jack Dempsey was weighing under 200 pounds.

Stop being silly.

He is though.

And again, as I said before, even if he wasn't, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE ARGUEMENT ABOUT DEMPSEY BEATING TYSON.

The last part is the only part that truly matters, so stop getting hung up on the speed aspect.

[robertzimmerman]

He is though.

And again, as I said before, even if he wasn't, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE ARGUEMENT ABOUT DEMPSEY BEATING TYSON.

The last part is the only part that truly matters, so stop getting hung up on the speed aspect.

Stop talking nonsense.

Just go and watch some footage.

There's nothing to debate.

Fury is not faster than Dempsey was.

Stop being ******.

[Fury4daWIN]

He still fought at HW and beat much bigger men.

No, I wouldn't have chosen Billy over George.

I'm not doubting that Dempsey could beat much bigger men than himself. That's on record. I'm dis*****g that he'd have a chance against the top big men of today, who are considerably more athletic and/or skilled than the big men of old.

SHWs in Dempsey's time were relatively rare, so there was a smaller statistical pool from which a potentially great SHW fighter could emerge. So far as I can see there were none.

Someone like Willard wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the division today, I imagine.

That assessment is silly.

You'd have to look at each individual fighter, case by case, looking at their skills and their attributes.

Why would Dempsey only have had the same chance at HW today, as today's biggest LHW's?

Today's LHW's don't possess the power he had, and they don't possess his bob and weave style that got him inside, along with his speed and pressure.

Guys like Kovalev and Stevenson would do as well at HW because they'd be too static in comparison.

I absolutely think modern LHWs have comparable power to Dempsey. Kovalev, Stevenson and especially Gvozdyk and Beterbiev have brutal lights out power. And this is with modern gloves, which have to be taken into account. The hardest punching Cruiserweights have superior power.

They might not necessarily do well at heavyweight due to their styles, but there's no guarantee Dempsey would find much success with his style either. He wasn't anywhere nearly as jerky jerky with it as Tyson was, nor as explosive. And Tyson got hit plenty even when he used it at its best.

[juggernaut666]

He weighed 185-200 pounds, and there's no logical reason why he wouldn't have had a chance of beating him.

You claim you are EDUCATING everyone here ,all i see is you ignoring all realistic points and coming back around with far fetched ones of your own . Firpo who was unrefined 215 pounder knocked Demspey out of the ring and you are questioning Wilders and Joshua abilities bc they havent SHOWED you anything yet ?

So let me get this straight , Joshua at 6'6 245 who has refined skills to that of BETTER abilities of a modern super heavyweight (yes they are trained better today ,i know its hard for nostalgics to believe ) is going to be an underdog vs a 190 Demspey ?

You used Frazier as an 200 pound example bc he beat Ali ? Frazier was nearly TKO'd by cruierweight Bonevena in the second rnd bc Bonevena THEN was considered a power puncher ,using Ali is not even relevant here bc Frazier didnt fight power punchers and when he did you saw the results (Foreman)

Using modern guys at 6'4 230 who were power punchers (Sanders ) to somehow show Demspey could win off of ONE Wlad fight is illogical and he was a southpaw too. In what context does a guy 3 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier ,different style etc have to do with Demspeys chances with Wlad ?

Demspey was an unrefined Mike Tyson like style ,MUCH EASIER to hit , needed to clinch and hit to maintain fight control and his legendary status is suped up bc he beat Jess Willard years out of retirement and NO WHERE near refined big man ( Fighting tall,utilizing distance ,better jabbing ,tighter defense ,footwork ,etc ) .

Demspey was the first to introduce better utilisation of variety combos of head to body but lets come back down to earth , a guy like Joshua wwho is an elite athlete ,fast and aggressive with tigyt counter punching abilities to use if he wants would crush Demspeys come forward mauling style ,end of !

"Willie Meehan was an extraordinary fighter, who fought in every weight division from flyweight to heavyweight, against some of the greatest fighters of his era.* Meehan was one of the great characters of the ring, who spurned the idea of training, and special diets. His rise in weight wasn’t due to an increase in muscle, but an incongruous increase in his waistline. By the time Willie had grown into a heavyweight of about 190 pounds, his 5’ ft.* 9”in.* body was portly in the extreme.


His physique resembled an early Tony Galento (with hair) but, rather than being a bar room brawler, type of slugger like Galento, Meehan was a clever and tricky boxer. He had speed that belied his build, and a huge collection of tricks with which to befuddle and exasperate his opponents.* "

A guy like Meehan not just short and no power gave Demspey problems but you are trying to sell he walks through modern era guys ? On what planet ?


This entire thread is beating a dead horse , i can go on forever with this it really wouldn't matter . Demspey is like a comic book super hero and that for many overrides logic , i can write a entire book on how boxing has changed and how heavy weights have changed from the 1900 to 2000's but guys like you would just read a old newspaper clipping from 1920's some reporter saying how Demspey was the best ever and go with that even though it wouldn't be logical !

[W1LL]

He'd give Bobby Gunn a decent fight.