Time For Some Reality

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  • koolkc107
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    #1

    Time For Some Reality

    Some of you are just plain blinded...by what, I don't really want to get into right now.

    Plenty of credible observers say the fight was close. And more importantly, the judges had it close - which means those of you who have Kovalev winning by a wide margin need to watch the fight again, hopefully seeing it for the first time the way it actually happened instead of thru whatever rose-colored glasses you happened to be wearing before.

    Do you realize how incredible the odds are for judges to arrive at the exact same score by completely different routes, yet all 3 score eight of the twelve rounds exactly the same? That only happens in two ways: the outcome is fixed or the judges are actually doing their jobs and scoring correctly, albeit subjectively.

    I am going to go out on a limb and contend that it was no fix. Too many observers saw it the same way the judges did. And even many who thought Kovalev won had the fight very close.

    So, instead of crying robbery let's allow that the judges got it right and talk about what went wrong and what each guy needs to do in the rematch.

    What went wrong

    I think both men grossly underestimated the skill level of the other. I think it is why Ward got tattooed and dropped in the early rounds and why Kovalev got bossed and worked in the middle and late ones. Ward probably never figured Kovalev was schooled enough to set up that perfect right hand with him, and couldn't possibly be technically sound enough to compromise one of the best defenses boxing has ever seen. But early on, Sergei put the lie to that. He used his jab often and accurately, which in turn set up great power shots. He stayed at his range and it made things simple for him in the early going.

    Getting dropped was Ward's wake-up call. It took him a round or three to fully implement the adjustment, but the KD was a turning point. I believe it was then that Ward knew he had to do two things to win: 1) maintain a distance of either "all the way in" or "all the way out", and 2) use an intelligent body attack to take something off of Sergei's power and accuracy. As early as the 3rd round he was getting some of these things done. And by the end of the 7th, he was in full control.

    Kovalev never made any adjustment to Ward's adjustment. There was no plan B for him. But, he is going to need that and more perhaps to win a rematch.

    What each man must do in a rematch

    For Ward, it has to be more of the same. Much more. With 12 rounds under his belt and the knowledge he can get up from a good shot from Kovalev, it should be easier for him the second time around, but he has to know a second close fight might very well go to Sergei the next time. He must go to the body even more relentlessly and start it from the opening bell. He must not just seek to block Kovalev's jab- which still leaves open the possibility of Sergei splitting his guard with a crushing right- he must time it well enough to slip and counter. If he is able to do these things, he will likely turn in a dominating performance with even a stoppage not out of the question.

    Kovalev's job can be summed up in one word: Busy. He must throw punches in bunches. He must cut off the ring and keep things at a distance that favors him. He must be ready for Ward's tactic of darting in, ready with well timed counters, particularly straight right leads and uppercuts. And, perhaps most importantly, he has got to figure out what to do about Ward's inside game if and when Andre gets inside. And, whatever that strategy turns out to be, it has to be more than using a reverse headlock (personally, I think holding in that way was something that worked very negatively against Sergei with the judges. If I see a guy using a reverse headlock almost every time his opponent gets close, sooner or later I might start to wonder what it is he is so desperate to avoid so often). He has got to learn to work inside, even if it is a little, because he cannot leave the impression that he is gun-shy in that area. If he keeps things outside for the most part, and keeps the inside exchanges honest, he can do enough damage to win a clear UD or even stop Ward in the late middle to last rounds.

    Here's is to hoping they make the rematch sooner rather than later. How rare is it that the top two go at it AND we actually get a good fight out of it? It was great to see the best in the game go at it and I am glad we are likely going to see it again.
  • Canelo and GGG
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    #2
    Close fight can be scored 117-111 its just a thing in this point system

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    • koolkc107
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      #3
      Originally posted by Canelo and GGG
      Close fight can be scored 117-111 its just a thing in this point system
      Not the way I define close.

      To me, close means every round or couple of rounds can be a deciding factor.

      I think what you are describing is what I'd call a competitive fight. A fight can be hotly contested yet with one guy clearly winning most of the rounds.

      That is not what happened last Saturday.

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      • SthPaw
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        #4
        Originally posted by Canelo and GGG
        Close fight can be scored 117-111 its just a thing in this point system
        As much as I agree with the OP I also agree with this. Yes some people do exaggerate exactly how good Kovalev was, it was closer than some people act. Totally agree.

        But what I have quoted is also true and worth baring in mind. A fight could be 12 rounds of nip and tuck with not a lot to separate either fighter, but a judge could have it scored wide open in the end based on their scoring criteria. The more effective aggressor for example, or who commands centre ring etc...A fight can seem close when not much happens, but those types of fights can still leave an 'obvious' winner, so to speak.

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        • Canelo and GGG
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          #5
          Originally posted by koolkc107
          Not the way I define close.

          To me, close means every round or couple of rounds can be a deciding factor.

          I think what you are describing is what I'd call a competitive fight. A fight can be hotly contested yet with one guy clearly winning most of the rounds.

          That is not what happened last Saturday.
          No ,when every raund is razor thin,and judge will give every of this rounds to fighter A cuse he was aggresor for example ,we got 117-111 in figh like Ward-Kovalev

          you could score it 116-112 and protect it ,when every raund is scored alone and is close someone could win majority of those

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          • daggum
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            #6
            10 rounds to 2 for kovalev is a more accurate score than 7-5 ward yet thats what the judges had. go rewatch the rounds. kov lands more, kov landds the cleaner punches, the punches that effect ward. yet he still lost. that can't be right. they got it wrong.

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            • koolkc107
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              #7
              Originally posted by Canelo and GGG
              No ,when every raund is razor thin,and judge will give every of this rounds to fighter A cuse he was aggresor for example ,we got 117-111 in figh like Ward-Kovalev

              you could score it 116-112 and protect it ,when every raund is scored alone and is close someone could win majority of those
              I will agree to disagree here.

              But, I will add this.

              There is no scoring criteria called "aggressor'.

              It's called Effective Aggression and it is much, much more than just who is coming forward and pressing.

              You have to actually make something happen when you come forward to get points for aggression, and what you make happen has to be better than what the other guy is doing to offset it.

              That's why Kovalev didn't win a whole lot of the rounds he was the "aggressor" in.

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              • Canelo and GGG
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                #8
                Originally posted by koolkc107
                I will agree to disagree here.

                But, I will add this.

                There is no scoring criteria called "aggressor'.

                It's called Effective Aggression and it is much, much more than just who is coming forward and pressing.

                You have to actually make something happen when you come forward to get points for aggression, and what you make happen has to be better than what the other guy is doing to offset it.

                That's why Kovalev didn't win a whole lot of the rounds he was the "aggressor" in.
                We can argue that Ward was not doing mutch clean work too,but what i mean is that fights like this can be scored Wide in 10points system,its easy to say for you that 1 raund decided cuse we know a card now.

                114-113 is in range of reasonable score to this but 116---112 Kovalev wouldnt be robbery ,its just giving him this close raunds,like i said 10point system can give resoults like this.

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                • koolkc107
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                  #9
                  Again, there is a difference between a close fight that can go either way and a competitive but onesided fight. If you have 12 close rounds and one guy clearly wins 9 of the 12, that isn't a close fight it's a closely contested fight with a clear and obvious winner.

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                  • .!WAR MIKEY!.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by koolkc107
                    Not the way I define close.

                    To me, close means every round or couple of rounds can be a deciding factor.

                    I think what you are describing is what I'd call a competitive fight. A fight can be hotly contested yet with one guy clearly winning most of the rounds.

                    That is not what happened last Saturday.
                    lmfao if you dont agree with that statement than YDKSAB.

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