Comments Thread For: Fighting Words - Kovalev-Ward: The Fight is Over, The Fighting Isn't

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

by David P. Greisman - The fight is over. The fighting is not. Nothing written in this column will change your conclusion, even if the fight itself was inconclusive. It was a fight that was so, so close. And yet those fighting over it are so, so far apart. There are actually three sides of this debate...
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[kingstip9]

114-113 either way isnt unreasonable. i scored it for kovalev, i watched it in the casino sports bar, and judging by the shock awe and booing. most people seemed to have it even wider for kovalev.
it was a great fight, i brought a friend, nervous it would turn out **** and man was i pleased with the fight
sergey was giving ward fits with that jab, i think kovalev wins the rematch.

[j0zef]

Great read and perfectly summarizes how I feel.

There's no robbery, just a bunch of close rounds. It's easier to give the fight to Kovalev due to the number of the close rounds and his dominance in the beginning of the fight. Ward got almost all of the swing rounds in his favor and thus won. There are many possibly reasons why the judges decided to give Ward those close rounds.

Some people will say it's because they were all Americans. It's possible.
Others will point to the crowd's reaction, which was almost entirely pro-Ward and anti-Kov.
A few will say it's because Ward deserved them.

I have a personal theory of why Kovalev got virtually shut out in 2nd half of the fight. It has everything to do with expectations. We all know that Ward is the technician and Kovalev is the puncher. When Kovalev performed like Kovalev, the judges swung in his favor. As soon as he played Ward's game, no matter how successful he was, judges assumed that Ward won those rounds because that's what they expected. After all, how could Kovalev hope to match Ward on the inside and throwing counters?


You can write 1000 articles arguing for one thing or another. Fact is it was a fight decided by 1 point. I scored the fight a draw, and that's what it was. The rematch will tell us everything we need to know. Either Ward makes the adjustments to make it look easy, or Kovalev will show that he's no longer playing. Rematch will be 5 times better than the original!

[GMAN SUPREME]

kovalev won!!!

[fightfanjoe]

kovalev won!!!

Apparently not!!!

[Boxing Logic]

David you just waxed poetic about the alleged subjectivity of this fight even though it came right after a fight where EVERYONE agrees the judges didn't get it "subjectively" wrong, they were BOUGHT OFF or otherwise corrupt in favor of the other Roc Nation fighter on the card.

So David, honestly, maybe you were told to write this to help cover for the judges, but writing an article about boxing judging in this fight without mentioning the evidence that judges on this night were clearly bought off makes you look like a shill.

Additionally, even Ward fans agree Kovalev won the 10th round, so how did all three judges give it to Ward? There is subjectivity, but then there is "if we give Kovalev one more round, he will win, so we have to give every round to Ward from now in, even ones he clearly loses like round 10."

How gullible do you think people are? Disagreeing is one thing, but clear evidence of corruption in favor of the same promotional company twice on the same night goes beyond any reasonable disagreement. Now you can say corruption wasn't quite as clear, at least not in as many rounds, in the Kovalev-Ward fight as it was in the Hooker-Perez fight, and that's fine, but you can't separate the two.

I mean, if you are trying to figure out who committed two serial robberies in real life where the robber leaves the same signature at each crime scene, and you find a suspect named Jonathan Schlooper whose fingerprints, hair, and car is at the first crime scene, but only his fingerprints are at the second crime scene, that doesn't mean you go "well you can't really say it was him the second robbery, because only his fingerprints were there, there wasn't nearly the overwhelming evidence as the first robbery." No, you connect the dots. The evidence from the first crime scene informs you about what happened at the second crime scene.

So David, I have been a huge fan of your work in the past, but I am very disappointed in this column, and I hope you write another one that actually touches on the high likelihood of corruption, not disagreement, but corruption, on this night. I want you to ask why Hooker got the draw against Perez after losing every round on everyone's scorecard? Why did one judge only have Kovalev up 4-2 after he dominated the first 6, but then give Ward every close round the second half of the fight? Why did all three judges give Ward round 10 when that was an obvious Kovalev round? You really think that's just down to disagreement?

See you looked at it from a macro level. You looked at it in hindsight, how you could find 7 rounds for Ward even if you gave Kovalev round 10. But that's not what happened on the night. The way the judges had it, when round 10 came around, if they had given it to Kovalev, he would have won, period. So they didn't have the benefit of moving around various rounds. If they wanted Ward to win, they had to give him round 10. And they did! Even though Kovalev won it clear. So why don't you focus more on that? THAT screams corruption to me. And I hope you actually write about that because right now it feels like you are covering for the judges big time.

I'm sorry, but do boxing judges really deserve the benefit of the doubt 60 minutes after Hooker-Perez ended? Come on.

[Redd Foxx]

A well-written article that should help many people respect a diverse number of opinions. No doubt we'll get the obligatory "Kovalev Won!!" and "I don't care what anyone says, I cannot yadda, yadda" noise.
But, folks, please read it. A little knowledge isn't going to hurt.
(and if it makes you feel better, the author thinks Kovalev won)

[GMAN SUPREME]

Apparently not!!!

he damn sure did.the corrupt judges can rightly fuk off.

[Boxing Logic]

Great read and perfectly summarizes how I feel.

There's no robbery, just a bunch of close rounds.

Fights can be close, and still be clear. I'll just pose it this way, as I stated in the comment I just made. Do Nevada Judges really deserve our benefit of the doubt with the Kovalev-Ward fight seeing as Nevada Judges just blatantly stole the fight from Perez only 60 minutes before Kovalev-Ward?

Like how dumb are we, honestly, that we can't even have memories longer than 60 minutes? They had already CLEARLY been bought off for, or otherwise told to favor, Roc Nation once on the night, and then when they turn in highly "unlikely" scorecards for Kovalev-Ward, as Max Kellerman even put it, once again benefitting Roc Nation, we're just supposed to believe it was random subjectivity? Like how dumb are we really?

Tell you what. Go watch round 10 of the fight on youtube, on mute. If you think it's reasonable that three objective judges could all give that round to Ward, then sure, it's just a subjective thing. But I bet after you watch that round again, without commentary, you will be asking yourself how the judges gave that round to Ward, and if they were perhaps bought off just like the Hooker-Perez fight.

[Boxing Logic]

A well-written article that should help many people respect a diverse number of opinions. No doubt we'll get the obligatory "Kovalev Won!!" and "I don't care what anyone says, I cannot yadda, yadda" noise.
But, folks, please read it. A little knowledge isn't going to hurt.
(and if it makes you feel better, the author thinks Kovalev won)

Brother I read it. Diverse opinions are great, but here's the thing, I haven't seen ONE diverse opinion about the Hooker-Perez scorecards. EVERYONE I've seen agrees Perez got straight robbed in favor of the Roc Nation fighter.

So if everyone admits the judges were bought off by, or otherwise in the tank for, Roc Nation for that fight, why is everyone dancing around the possibility that they were also bought off for the Kovalev-Ward fight? As if Roc Nation would go to the trouble to protect Maurice Hooker, but not their star fighter Andre Ward?

Diverse opinions are great, but we have to be realistic, as well. Boxing is a dirty game. The judges already stole one fight on saturday for Roc Nation, so you have to be very, very naive to think Ward getting the decision vs Kovalev was 100% down to "diverse opinions" and "subjective scoring," and not something else. Very, very naive. And brother, I don't think you're that naive. I think you've probably been told Kovalev was a racist, you've probably gotten into arguments with Kovalev fans on NSB, and you're probably enjoying seeing them get what you feel is their just due, even if it didn't come from a fair decision. I guess that's human nature (although I'd like to think honor is human nature too...), but I'm just saying, don't act like you're that naive, I know you're smarter than that brother. There was shady **** going on that night with the judging and those judges don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

By the way have you rewatched round 10? Be curious to hear who you thought won that round after rewatching. Peace.