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Boxing Myths - The Truth

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  • Boxing Myths - The Truth

    I thought about putting this up on the history section but I guess people on here probably need to learn more so here it is. I'll be posting and dispelling a boxing myth every so often but others (actual boxing fans please) are more than welcome to join in. Here's the first one:

    Dundee loosened the Ropes in Zaire

    The single most mystic, legendary and fictionilised fight in boxing history is the rumble in the jungle. It changed the boxing landscape and gave birth to a million myths, primary of them, is the story of the loose ropes. This story, as far as I can tell, served two purposes:

    1. It indicates that Angelo Dundee, Ali's chief of staff essentially (trainer/coach whatever is too small a word) loosened the ropes prior to his fight against heavyweight champ George Foreman, thus denoting the fact that he KNEW what Ali would do.

    2. Ali could not have pulled off the rope-a-dope without prior planning, motivation and of course, the largely illegal (in sports) act of tampering of equipment by one of Ali's corner men.

    The myth however, is quite easily dispelled when one looks at its origins, which can be traced back to Mailer and Plimpton. Norman Mailer was one of America's great modern writers and George Plimpton one of its great modern journalists. The two were also enamoured with boxing and in particular, Muhammad Ali.

    This love for the sport and the man led both intellectuals to Zaire, however it was Plimpton who always had the greater access whereas Mailer filled his writings on the event with the stories that Plimpton told him. Eventually, Mailers writings of that fight in Zaire would be collated into both an article and a best selling book. This is the birth of the "loosened ropes" myth.

    You see, Mailer writes in his fight report, that as Ali was waiting in the ring (for an extended period of time) for Foreman to make his way to the ring, Dundee walked from ring corner to ring corner, loosening the rope. However, this does not stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

    First off, the point of Dundee moving from corner to corner. Watching video of the fight, you see he moves to one corner, where he gets someone to push in the box of rosin, used to provide grip for fighters shoes. Ali's other corner man, Wali Muhammad, moves into the far right corner, to TIGHTEN the ropes.

    The American commentator at the time, mentions that Dundee has been very particular about the ropes and wants them to be as tight as possible. He isn't happy, according to Plimpton, who had far more access to the Ali team than Mailer. In fact, Plimpton notes that the day before the fight, when the ring had already been set up, Dundee actually had it tightened and did so personally.

    This is all part of the plan. Ali's team want to be able to move and not fall straight back through the ropes when they're are too close to them. It is further backed up by Ali and his teams demand to have a 20 foot ring. Everlast, who built the ring, had a special 19.5 foot ring constructed, much to the consternation of Foreman's team, which originally wanted a ring of no more than 18 feet.

    The final piece of evidence, if it's needed, is that both Dundee and Bundini Brown, the two men closest to Ali in his corner, were vocally against Ali's tactics post round 2. What were those? Staying on the ropes of course! You can see Dundee repeatedly pleading with Ali to stay off the ropes and admonishing him in the corner. Bundini and Pecheco are both equally furious at Ali between rounds.

    This shows that not only was Dundee opposed to foolish tactics such as rope-a-dope but Ali's true genius was that he learned how to win the fight on the fly. That is the hall mark of true greatness, to be bale to adjust at times of great upheaval.

    Now we come back to Mr Mailer. Why did he turn the story the way he did? Maybe it was the novelist in him. His need to craft a clear narrative because, as life would have it, the Zaire fight did not have a clear narrative. Ali didn't have a plan in round 2. He just made one up. Or maybe Mailer wanted to place himself at the center of events which he was never truly a part of. Who knows?

    What you know now, is the truth.

  • #2
    Another myth is that Tito had loaded wraps

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    • #3
      Another myth is that Canelo would Beat GGG.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Canelo and GGG View Post
        Another myth is that Tito had loaded wraps
        Agreed. The reality is that Richardson watched them wrap his hands and objected to how the wrapping occurred, not what was in said wrapping. Tito's team re-wrapped his hands and it was all fine.

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        • #5
          Duran didn't Quit Against Leonard/Was not at his best and Leonard tricked him

          Just look at the facts:

          Duran blowing up in weight was not new or unusual, so why should that be an excuse this time round?

          Duran came in only half a pound more than the last time.

          He showed no signs of being weight drained.

          Part of the story to exonerate blame from Duran is that the rematch was too quick, yet immediately following the fight, both men said they wanted the rematch. The rematch, especially after a 5month span, was not a surprise to either man.

          He tried moving effectively early on and got Leonard with some shots but as Leonard got better and quicker, Duran missed more and more.

          Duran quit and told his management to make up an excuse

          Those excuses ranged from stomach cramps to shoulder pain to other cramps. Ray Arcel, Durans long time friend, trainer and father figure, was so disgusted that he quit Durans corner and almost quit boxing for good. He also went onto talk about 2 other fighters he had known and said they would never quit, implying Duran had quit.

          Why make up excuses for a fight if you have a legitimate excuse? the answer is he didnt. He couldnt say he was unable to beat Leonard that night.

          Many other people claim Duran ended the fight because he thought he would get an immediate rematch. That again, is false. Duran was slated to retire after the fight, so how could he expect a 3rd bout? Not to mention his trainers, managers and promoters all left him after the loss.

          How does anyone make a fight with a fighter who has no management, trainers or promoters?

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          • #6
            What about this Alexis vs Pryor fight and a mystery drink ,this fight destroyed Alexis.

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            • #7
              Or that SRR lost to Maxim just cuse of heat ?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Canelo and GGG View Post
                What about this Alexis vs Pryor fight and a mystery drink ,this fight destroyed Alexis.
                I'd have to do some reading on this.

                Originally posted by Canelo and GGG View Post
                Or that SRR lost to Maxim just cuse of heat ?
                The heat was indeed a major factor.

                Robinson was moving a lot in that fight, more so than he had done at middleweight. While he was moving, he was also throwing and landing punches but Maxim, taller and naturally bigger, was pushing on Robinson every chance he got.

                The combination of Maxims size bearing down on Robinson and Robinson's own tactics or continuously moving was tiring the great man out. Add to that very high temperatures and it became unbearable for Robinson at one stage and his body went limp.

                If he had some how made it through to the next round, I think Maxim would have KOd him.

                Btw watch the fight, it's quite good and not as one sided as many say. Maxim won his fair share of rounds.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by soul_survivor View Post
                  I'd have to do some reading on this.



                  The heat was indeed a major factor.

                  Robinson was moving a lot in that fight, more so than he had done at middleweight. While he was moving, he was also throwing and landing punches but Maxim, taller and naturally bigger, was pushing on Robinson every chance he got.

                  The combination of Maxims size bearing down on Robinson and Robinson's own tactics or continuously moving was tiring the great man out. Add to that very high temperatures and it became unbearable for Robinson at one stage and his body went limp.

                  If he had some how made it through to the next round, I think Maxim would have KOd him.

                  Btw watch the fight, it's quite good and not as one sided as many say. Maxim won his fair share of rounds.
                  Iirc, the referee for that match had collapsed due to heat exhaustion

                  If the ref did with his relevantly little movement, just imagine how SRR was feeling actually being in the fight

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Zenkai View Post
                    Iirc, the referee for that match had collapsed due to heat exhaustion

                    If the ref did with his relevantly little movement, just imagine how SRR was feeling actually being in the fight
                    Great point.

                    I always wondered why Robinson didn't pursue a rematch. Does anyone know?

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