Everyone Wants to Talk About Floyd's IV - What About Pac-Monster's Toradol Abuse???

[ADP02]

WRONG. You didn't answer. You only showed that you are not familiar with the drug he was attempting to take. It numbs your entire body and, according to football players, allows you to run through a brick wall and not feel anything.

So once again, if Manny was at normal strength and HE HIMSELF SAID HE HAD NO PAIN BEFORE THE FIGHT, wouldn't Toradol put him in an abnormal state?

Still waiting. You can do it! Answer the question.

No, you are not getting it.

Why would one use Toradol?

"A drug that enables injured players to play thru their pain"


As I pointed out, its useless unless its to decrease pain. So to say, Manny used it because of pain! There is no other reason to use it! You are making it sound like its for something else. Right?

So tell me why? Was it for pain or not?



Here is what a doctor said.
"Questions surrounding the rotator cuff tear in Manny Pacquiao’s shoulder - Would Toradol have helped Pacquiao?

Now knowing what his injury was, we can assume that a pre-fight Toradol injection might not have helped much. The controversial injection is an anti-inflammatory given to decrease pain during competition. Pacquiao might not have felt as much shoulder pain during the bout, but Toradol would not have helped any weakness from a tear."



Now lets go thru this fight.
It was a very high technical fight with very few punches thrown. As expected, Floyd thru mostly "touch" jabs and a few right hands where most had little on them. So to say, Floyd did what we expect out of him. Nothing new. Manny was not expecting in the exchanges Mike Tyson type bombs. Nor Paul Williams type work rate.

So AGAIN, what's your point????

I rank this like your other points. You know, like the "waving flag", the "swimming documents" and now this.

[ADP02]

Doesn't this prove my point. Previously in this thread much like the other threads, you intentionally take Floyd's response out of context and omit key words.


1. Floyd didn't understand the question and asked for clarification.

2. Floyd was responding in the context of using SALINE SOLUTION vs Pedialyte.

3. Floyd says "Leonard can touch on this subject" .....the very next question about USADA contract with UFC.....Floyd laughed and bragged about being the first one and quickly says "Leonard please touch on this subject".


Yet you keep trying to twist the responses by omitting portions of what was said.

I told you before, you are taking bits and pieces of a snippet of an interview and trying to force it to fit your own agenda.

I'm not twisting anything. Those were the words used by the reporter, Floyd and Ellerbe.

Floyd was buying time THEN He said that other athletes use Pedialyte while he used an IV for dehydration then needed more time and passed the buck to Ellerbe.

[ADP02]

Manny didn't check any boxes on the checklist for injuries or conditions. Why? Was he trying to hide the fact that he took Toradol to numb the devastating shots from Floyd?

Yet he listed all the meds that he did use.

As for Floyd and his devastating shots , I know that you are joking because most offensive highlights came from Manny hitting Floyd not the other way around. Floyd fights defensively, we ALL knew that going into the fight. Floyd does NOT fight with KO written on every punch.

Even your highlight is of what? Maidana, without his preferred gloves, dazing Floyd, not the other way around.




.

[ADP02]

Prior to USADA, a WADA signatory, began testing combat athletes, IV use was the norm and completely legal under the Nevada state athletic commission.



WADA banned IV use because it has the potential to be used in way not intended. Agreed. Especially for those athletes who maybe only take one or two test a year and haven't developed a well documented biological passport. Using an iv can mask or distort results making WADAs and ADOs job more difficult - especially if they are unaware that an iv was administered in the first place.




In Floyd's case, USADA was present during the iv and collected a partial sample before and collected a full sample, that would've had to pass a Specific Gravity test to ensure the urine sample was not dilluted, after the iv was adminstered. Along with a vast history of biological passport to reference - USADA covered every protocol to ensure the IV was being used for intended purpose. Rehydration.

Think objectively for a minute. Specific gravity test done by a DCO is not enough for several reasons.
1) If you think that is a good enough reason for Floyd then it should be a good enough reason for others who try to mask their urine sample by diluting. DCO would catch them all. So WADA/USADA shouldn't have to worry about masking by way of dilution but they do!!!


2) One can use an IV and still pass the specific gravity test yet dilute enough to mask.

3) Here is what an ADO had to say about getting an IV immediately prior to a drug test
"It goes without saying that any use of an IV infusion immediately prior to a drug test (whether blood or urine) would be considered highly suspicious and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. It is worth remembering that an inappropriate use of an IV infusion could generate a doping violation charge against the doctor."


4) Since Floyd gets a pass with that RETRO BS, the biological passport values may be thrown out of the window due fluctuations caused by using an IV.


5) More on Biological passport:
"...the news that the passport is beatable is not, well, news. Remember that point that other organizations fund research? Another study, not directly funded by WADA, found much the same as the recent French study.

The researchers in the other study included several well-regarded scientists (led by Ashenden). They gave 10 subjects twice-weekly microdoses of EPO for 12 weeks. Similar to the French study, researchers found a 10 percent increase in total hemoglobin mass, which correlates strongly to aerobic capacity. Just as with the French study, researchers found that none of the 10 athletes’ profiles would have been flagged as abnormal by the software analysis"




.

[travestyny]

No, you are not getting it.

Why would one use Toradol?

"A drug that enables injured players to play thru their pain"


As I pointed out, its useless unless its to decrease pain. So to say, Manny used it because of pain! There is no other reason to use it! You are making it sound like its for something else. Right?

So tell me why? Was it for pain or not?



Here is what a doctor said.
"Questions surrounding the rotator cuff tear in Manny Pacquiao’s shoulder - Would Toradol have helped Pacquiao?

Now knowing what his injury was, we can assume that a pre-fight Toradol injection might not have helped much. The controversial injection is an anti-inflammatory given to decrease pain during competition. Pacquiao might not have felt as much shoulder pain during the bout, but Toradol would not have helped any weakness from a tear."



Now lets go thru this fight.
It was a very high technical fight with very few punches thrown. As expected, Floyd thru mostly "touch" jabs and a few right hands where most had little on them. So to say, Floyd did what we expect out of him. Nothing new. Manny was not expecting in the exchanges Mike Tyson type bombs. Nor Paul Williams type work rate.

So AGAIN, what's your point????

I rank this like your other points. You know, like the "waving flag", the "swimming documents" and now this.

No, I don’t have pain or injury before the fight. I just want to make sure that whatever happened, I’m still there. I’m not saying I’m not 100 percent condition.” -- Manny Pacquiao

LMAO.
Please explain.

[Dosumpthin]

I'm not twisting anything. Those were the words used by the reporter, Floyd and Ellerbe.

Floyd was buying time THEN He said that other athletes use Pedialyte while he used an IV for dehydration then needed more time and passed the buck to Ellerbe.

You have made numerous post in multiple threads where you intentionally omitt portions of his response.



The interviewer specifically asks about the fluids in the iv. When asked for clarification, he then mentions "saline soulution". Floyd's response of "some fighters use Pedialyte" would be consistent to how the question was
asked - which was perceived to be a question about the substances contained in the iv rather than the legality of using an iv.


The follow up questions that ellerbe answered were more about the need to rehydrate - in which ellerbe gave multiple reasons as to what can contribute to dehydration.


Floyd "passed the buck to ellerbe" as if it was a sign of guilt has been debunked also because he did the same exact thing with the next topic when asked.



Now you accuse him of buying time? Come on. You're getting desperate.

[Dosumpthin]

Think objectively for a minute. Specific gravity test done by a DCO is not enough for several reasons.
1) if you think that is a good enough reason for Floyd then it should be a good enough reason for others who try to mask their urine sample by diluting. DCO would catch them all. So WADA/USADA shouldn't have to worry about masking by way of dilution but they do!!!

I expect this type of response from you because it is apparent you don't underatand the philosophy behind the implementation of ABP and certain parts of WADA code. Not do you understand how they determine violations and what they consider adverse analytical findings.


We've been over this before but you couldn't grasp the concept.


But to answer your point, WADA labs and the ABP software will discover irregularities in the athletes samples such as dilution. This alone can result in an adverse analytical finding unless WADA/USADA was made aware prior to sample collection.

So no. Athletes are not free to dilute their samples without it being a violation as you suggest.

2) One can use an IV and still pass the specific gravity test yet dilute enough to mask.

Maybe it's possible. I'm not sure. I guess if you say so....... Use an iv, pass the gravity test and still mask ped use or distort their values in a way not raise suspicion. I suppose this is useful and valuable information. Post your source please.

In the meantime, I'm aware that Floyd submitted a partial sample prior the IV administration - so I don't know how this applies specifically to floyd.

3) Here is what an ADO had to say about getting an IV immediately prior to a drug test
"It goes without saying that any use of an IV infusion immediately prior to a drug test (whether blood or urine) would be considered highly suspicious and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. It is worth remembering that an inappropriate use of an IV infusion could generate a doping violation charge against the doctor."

Rightfully so. WADA has gone great lengths to keep athelets informed about their policy on IV use. WADA wants to be informed IN ADVANCE when an IV is used or else when they find out they will hit you with a violation.


Its similar to a boss telling an employee to inform them if your going to be late or absent.

4) Since Floyd gets a pass with that RETRO BS, the biological passport values may be thrown out of the window due fluctuations caused by using an IV.

Again. You don't understand how the ABP is implemented.


Bottom line is USADA was aware prior to sample collection. That's really the goal. WADA wants to be informed about IV use or else you may be comitting a rule violation.

5) More on Biological passport:
"...the news that the passport is beatable is not, well, news. Remember that point that other organizations fund research? Another study, not directly funded by WADA, found much the same as the recent French study.

The researchers in the other study included several well-regarded scientists (led by Ashenden). They gave 10 subjects twice-weekly microdoses of EPO for 12 weeks. Similar to the French study, researchers found a 10 percent increase in total hemoglobin mass, which correlates strongly to aerobic capacity. Just as with the French study, researchers found that none of the 10 athletes’ profiles would have been flagged as abnormal by the software analysis"




.

First off you can't apply something that general specifically to floyd. Stop it. That's not a solid argument.

Secondly you can't beat ABP montoring of 50+ samples by using one IV.



The study you are referring to is MICRODOSING and go under the radar without being subjected to more testing. Especially as a low level athelete.



But we know Floyd and Manny were THOROUGHLY tested.


So why bring this up?

[LoadedWraps]

I expect this type of response from you because it is apparent you don't underatand the philosophy behind the implementation of ABP and certain parts of WADA code. Not do you understand how they determine violations and what they consider adverse analytical findings.


We've been over this before but you couldn't grasp the concept.


But to answer your point, WADA labs and the ABP software will discover irregularities in the athletes samples such as dilution. This alone can result in an adverse analytical finding unless WADA/USADA was made aware prior to sample collection.

So no. Athletes are not free to dilute their samples without it being a violation as you suggest.




Maybe it's possible. I'm not sure. I guess if you say so....... Use an iv, pass the gravity test and still mask ped use or distort their values in a way not raise suspicion. I suppose this is useful and valuable information. Post your source please.

In the meantime, I'm aware that Floyd submitted a partial sample prior the IV administration - so I don't know how this applies specifically to floyd.



Rightfully so. WADA has gone great lengths to keep athelets informed about their policy on IV use. WADA wants to be informed IN ADVANCE when an IV is used or else when they find out they will hit you with a violation.


Its similar to a boss telling an employee to inform them if your going to be late or absent.



Again. You don't understand how the ABP is implemented.


Bottom line is USADA was aware prior to sample collection. That's really the goal. WADA wants to be informed about IV use or else you may be comitting a rule violation.








First off you can't apply something that general specifically to floyd. Stop it. That's not a solid argument.

Secondly you can't beat ABP montoring of 50+ samples by using one IV.



The study you are referring to is MICRODOSING and go under the radar without being subjected to more testing. Especially as a low level athelete.



But we know Floyd and Manny were THOROUGHLY tested.


So why bring this up?

[SCEN3RY]

Prior to USADA, a WADA signatory, began testing combat athletes, IV use was the norm and completely legal under the Nevada state athletic commission.



WADA banned IV use because it has the potential to be used in way not intended. Agreed. Especially for those athletes who maybe only take one or two test a year and haven't developed a well documented biological passport. Using an iv can mask or distort results making WADAs and ADOs job more difficult - especially if they are unaware that an iv was administered in the first place.




In Floyd's case, USADA was present during the iv and collected a partial sample before and collected a full sample, that would've had to pass a Specific Gravity test to ensure the urine sample was not dilluted, after the iv was adminstered. Along with a vast history of biological passport to reference - USADA covered every protocol to ensure the IV was being used for intended purpose. Rehydration.

To be believe all that you'd have to believe what you hear. At that point it's a matter of accepting certain information and disregarding other pieces. I'm not convinced Floyd needed an IV bag in the first place, if I'm being honest, but if USADA actually conducted a gravity test before the IV was administered that was a good thing. The key to a gravity test is timing otherwise it's a pretty pointless procedure. I think the facts speak for themselves however; IV's are banned for several reasons, coincidentally Toradol isn't. But that doesn't mean that one day toradol won't be banned. A few football players (who are probably in pain) like it (although the most heavily abused anti-inflammatory in the NFL is actually marijuana, banned), and then there are people in the links I posted that question Toradol and ask why they feel nauseous or 'when is it going to kick in, it's been 8 hours?' You think toradol is less a pain reliever and more a miracle drug of absolute destruction, but the evidence doesn't support this as of now.

Time and time again we see today's drugs banned tomorrow. No matter how highly you might think of USADA, the fact is testing agency's have always been a step behind and it was proven with IV's yet again.

[Zaroku]

No, I don’t have pain or injury before the fight. I just want to make sure that whatever happened, I’m still there. I’m not saying I’m not 100 percent condition.” -- Manny Pacquiao

LMAO.
Please explain.

Let me try to explain. PAC is a liar, a drug cheat, and is addicted to Toridol.
He's a crack head too! Manny "Shabu" pacman! A role model in the Philippines.