Why do most fans see Roman Gonzalez as a place holder...

[soul_survivor]

I can see what you are saying in terms of his recent resume. But in real terms its hard not to have him as one of the best 5 fighters in the world.

Ward or gonzalez? And I agree on both being top 5.

Ward needs a consistent level of top class wins to be numero uno but other than that, beating Kov should have him top 5.

[The Big Dunn]

For the Ward vs Kovalev winner? I mean, Roman has made a name for himself and his resume is as deep if not deeper than both Ward and Kovalev's. He's also facing a prime, undefeated and bigger champion in Cuadras and didn't take 3 tune up fights at the weight in order to do so. In fact, he jumped on it as soon as he could and skipped all the marinating bs that most fighters tend to love to milk.

Is it because the lower weight divisions aren't as respected? Or is it because Ward is American and most of the sport's analysts and American audience just NEED an American holding down the PFP crown, in order to exert their dominance? I think it's a mixture of both. Personally I think the main reason why Americans don't care for the lower weights is because there are no Americans down there to root for. There is no American elite talent and since they have no one, then that must mean everyone down there sucks.

Anyway, I'm not sure what will happen with the ratings once the dust settles after Kovalev vs Ward is over with. I mean, sure the victor will most likely snatch the PFP title from Roman... But would it be honestly an earned accolade? Or will it be a biased driven decision against the little giant of the sport just to have the torch be carried by a much more formidable man?

Most don't really know much about him or his resume but know alot about Kov and Ward.

[The Comic DON]

Prejudice against smaller fighters, but if Gonzales beats Cuadras he remains #1 and any dummy that puts the winner of Ward vs Kovalev (outside a 1st round stoppage) should be discredited.

But if you notice it's mostly fake Ward fans aka Mayweather fans making that claim, because they can't imagine a P4P fighter not being American. I just ignore that type because in reality they just don't count.

[KingHippo]

Prejudice against smaller fighters, but if Gonzales beats Cuadras he remains #1 and any dummy that puts the winner of Ward vs Kovalev (outside a 1st round stoppage) should be discredited.

But if you notice it's mostly fake Ward fans aka Mayweather fans making that claim, because they can't imagine a P4P fighter not being American. I just ignore that type because in reality they just don't count.

No way, you just don't want to see an American at number 1.

If Andre Ward beats Kovalev he's number one, end of story.

[Tom Cruise]

Ward or gonzalez? And I agree on both being top 5.

Ward needs a consistent level of top class wins to be numero uno but other than that, beating Kov should have him top 5.

You said you didnt have Ward rated P4P no?

[LoadedWraps]

So one win trumps all of Roman's career? That's rather absurd, wouldn't you agree? especially since Ward has done nothing significant in years and Kovalev's most notable wins don't trump Roman's.

It's not absurd at all. One win can be that significant, especially without some controversial loss or decision in recent memory to offset it. That's the same reason I rate Fury so highly p4p as well. You don't dethrone a lineal champ with a decade long reign and don't get recognition and respect for it, nevermind how the fight went down and if it was a barn burner or not.

Gonalez has dominated, but similar to GGG those champions scalps don't carry the same weight a win over Kovalev or Ward would. The reason I keep GGG and Gonzalez rated highly is because of the eye test and undefeated record combined with getting the wins at their disposal.

And like you said in the OP, yes, smaller weight classes have a lot to do with it. I've been boxing for a long time but I have a hard time finding interest in weight classes below my own (147+) just because.

If you took a group out to the desert and had a dog fight and a scorpion fight in two rings side by side, which would draw more attention? I'd put money on the dog fight. If the two rings had a dog fight, and a bear fight, I'd put my money on the bear fight to draw the most attention. Do you disagree? And if you do, why? I think it's a valid comparison.

[soul_survivor]

You said you didnt have Ward rated P4P no?

Yeah I don't, but that's due to inactivity and piss poor opposition for almost 5 years but I said, if he beats Kov, no problem in him being p4p top 5 because that will couple in with the victory over Froch.

And as I continued, if Ward keeps on beating top opponents consistently, no reason why he can't claw back that p4p no.1 spot...depending on how GGG, Fury, AJ, Bradley, Frampton and a few others progress.

[Boxfan83]

For the Ward vs Kovalev winner? I mean, Roman has made a name for himself and his resume is as deep if not deeper than both Ward and Kovalev's. He's also facing a prime, undefeated and bigger champion in Cuadras and didn't take 3 tune up fights at the weight in order to do so. In fact, he jumped on it as soon as he could and skipped all the marinating bs that most fighters tend to love to milk.

Is it because the lower weight divisions aren't as respected? Or is it because Ward is American and most of the sport's analysts and American audience just NEED an American holding down the PFP crown, in order to exert their dominance? I think it's a mixture of both. Personally I think the main reason why Americans don't care for the lower weights is because there are no Americans down there to root for. There is no American elite talent and since they have no one, then that must mean everyone down there sucks.

Anyway, I'm not sure what will happen with the ratings once the dust settles after Kovalev vs Ward is over with. I mean, sure the victor will most likely snatch the PFP title from Roman... But would it be honestly an earned accolade? Or will it be a biased driven decision against the little giant of the sport just to have the torch be carried by a much more formidable man?

1st let me say good topic Aztekkas, im tired of the GGG sucks, Mayweathers overrated threads...

Now mind you Ward is my favorite fighter BUT I prefer fights below 130 because there is less politics down there... I will answer the main points I believe you spoke on:

First of all, Ward took 3 tune-ups after a long lay off, Gonzalez is an active fighter. This really shouldnt be a knock against either guy 1 was active 1 wasnt anf Gonzalez is #1 p4p (rightfully) due to that fact.

Are lower weight divisions respected? Well not so much by North Americans and Europeans. I Mexico, South America, Japan, & other Asian countries they are and NSB is mostly North American and European posters...

Does beating Kovalev deserve that accolade? Well I would say yes. For 1 Kovalev is a p4p fighter, Cuadras is not. Ward was the p4p #1 before his layoff whci should hold weight. Also going up 7lbs is a lot more than 3. And the KO rate at 175 is a lot higher than 115 meaning it takes more skill at 175 to simply not get ktfo. Again I like watching the smaller weight divisions but I have seen some fights where they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink and dont lay a dent, that dont happen often at 175.

Lastly dont get me wrong, I think the smaller guys are just as skilled as the bigger guys, its not their fault they were born smaller and shouldnt be considered less of an athlete BUT when you get 2 guys in a fighting sport that are equally as skilled, you HAVE to give it to the bigger man. Saying RG is just as skilled as the Ward vs Kovalev winner is a compliment in itself and vice versa but just like the old cliche, a great big man always beats a great lil man. P4P speaking does the same. With that said, if Fury wiped out Wilder, Joshua and Ortiz, hed be #1 p4p over Ward or Kovalev. Just my 2 cents...

[1hourRun]

The fact that the P4P in the sport is fighting this weekend on HBO and there is no sticky up for such a great fight that changes the landscape of 112 and 115 but Jacobs vs. Mora does have a thread only speaks to the point OP is making and how casual boxingscene is.

[Aztekkas]

It's not absurd at all. One win can be that significant, especially without some controversial loss or decision in recent memory to offset it. That's the same reason I rate Fury so highly p4p as well. You don't dethrone a lineal champ with a decade long reign and don't get recognition and respect for it, nevermind how the fight went down and if it was a barn burner or not.

Gonalez has dominated, but similar to GGG those champions scalps don't carry the same weight a win over Kovalev or Ward would. The reason I keep GGG and Gonzalez rated highly is because of the eye test and undefeated record combined with getting the wins at their disposal.

And like you said in the OP, yes, smaller weight classes have a lot to do with it. I've been boxing for a long time but I have a hard time finding interest in weight classes below my own (147+) just because.

If you took a group out to the desert and had a dog fight and a scorpion fight in two rings side by side, which would draw more attention? I'd put money on the dog fight. If the two rings had a dog fight, and a bear fight, I'd put my money on the bear fight to draw the most attention. Do you disagree? And if you do, why? I think it's a valid comparison.

I agree with what you said to an extent but disagree with it being a fair of valid point. Sure folks will be more attracted to the bigger spectacle between two ferocious beast but then again, that's mainly due to the savage nature of the larger creatures and them being wild animals. Boxing isn't just two men swinging for the fences(for the most part lol), at least not at the level Roman fights at. You have to take skill and technical abilities into account, something that doesn't exist in a battle between two savage beasts. Simply because Ward and Kovalev are much bigger doesn't translate to them being superior skill wise or ability wise. More entertaining? That's objective since everyone has their own personal views and opinions.

Does Kovalev's wins and skills truly eclipse Roman's? Personally, I don think so. However that's my opinion.

Does Ward's past run of significant names keep him relevant? to a degree, but he hasn't done anything at 175 since returning to the sport, sat on the sidelines for a long time and was rather underwhelming in his previous fight. Nothing in his last showing screamed "PFP #1", but people seem to hold on to what he accomplished years ago in an attempt to keep him relevant in the present.

1st let me say good topic Aztekkas, im tired of the GGG sucks, Mayweathers overrated threads...

Now mind you Ward is my favorite fighter BUT I prefer fights below 130 because there is less politics down there... I will answer the main points I believe you spoke on:

First of all, Ward took 3 tune-ups after a long lay off, Gonzalez is an active fighter. This really shouldnt be a knock against either guy 1 was active 1 wasnt anf Gonzalez is #1 p4p (rightfully) due to that fact.

Are lower weight divisions respected? Well not so much by North Americans and Europeans. I Mexico, South America, Japan, & other Asian countries they are and NSB is mostly North American and European posters...

Does beating Kovalev deserve that accolade? Well I would say yes. For 1 Kovalev is a p4p fighter, Cuadras is not. Ward was the p4p #1 before his layoff whci should hold weight. Also going up 7lbs is a lot more than 3. And the KO rate at 175 is a lot higher than 115 meaning it takes more skill at 175 to simply not get ktfo. Again I like watching the smaller weight divisions but I have seen some fights where they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink and dont lay a dent, that dont happen often at 175.

Lastly dont get me wrong, I think the smaller guys are just as skilled as the bigger guys, its not their fault they were born smaller and shouldnt be considered less of an athlete BUT when you get 2 guys in a fighting sport that are equally as skilled, you HAVE to give it to the bigger man. Saying RG is just as skilled as the Ward vs Kovalev winner is a compliment in itself and vice versa but just like the old cliche, a great big man always beats a great lil man. P4P speaking does the same. With that said, if Fury wiped out Wilder, Joshua and Ortiz, hed be #1 p4p over Ward or Kovalev. Just my 2 cents...

Interesting points and I respect them all.

The fact that the P4P in the sport is fighting this weekend on HBO and there is no sticky up for such a great fight that changes the landscape of 112 and 115 but Jacobs vs. Mora does have a thread only speaks to the point OP is making and how casual boxingscene is.

because Mora vs Jacobs II is at 160 and both fighters are American. Also, Jacobs is carrying the hopes of many whom want to see GGG's downfall. Anyway, it is what it is.

Roman's situation holds true to Jay's lyrics

"If you can't respect that your whole perspective is wack, maybe you'll love me when I fade to black."