Comments Thread For: "Fighting Words" - Guerrero, Angulo and the Right Time To Go

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

by David P. Greisman - Getting into the ring is the easy part. Getting out of it is much more difficult. Robert Guerrero and Alfredo Angulo have stepped between four ropes on four sides for most of their lives. Guerrero was 9 years old when he followed his older brothers into the gym. Angulo was a 17-year-old inspired to lace up the gloves after watching the rematch between Oscar De La Hoya and Julio Cesar Chavez...
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[TheCell8]

The main reason fighters stay past their expiration date is because of money issues. I don't know either of their situations, but I do know Guerrero has made a ton of money since facing Floyd. You would think with the kind of paychecks he's getting that he could comfortably retire.

[Kingraleck]

As these threads usually devolve into this discussion, allow me the honor to commence the Haymon-HBO debate. First, the amounts that both Guerrero and Angulo received are noteworthy. $500K for Guerrero in particular is remarkable. He's obviously a well established fighter, but can anyone expect him to carry a show on his own at this point in his career? Who wouldn't step in the ring for that amount for a supposed tune up fight against Peralta? Any other promoter/adviser going to put up that kind of cash for such a fight? I don't think so, because it doesn't make business sense. UCN states that attendance was poor for this event, which is not a surprise. Hopefully the advertising dollars were enough to cover the costs of the event.

Second, why is Haymon putting on programs with the leftovers from HBO from a decade ago? Angulo has not been well, even past his contender status when he was beat by Lara and Kirkland. (Cintron has accomplished enough frustrating other boxers, so there is no shame in losing to him.) He was served up to Canelo, which quite frankly should have been the end of his career. Then he gets $100K to fight Hernandez? That's all the reasons you need to lace them up this weekend. However, I find it a hard sell to market this fight to anyone with any knowledge of these fighters' recent history. 10 years ago this is a HBO double header worth seeing with these 2 guys as co-headliners. Today? I think we got what we paid for, which was free thanks to Haymon.

In short, I cannot see how much longer this business model holds up for Haymon. What are the guarantees for Angulo and Guerrero for their next fights? Who is going to show up, or much less tune in for these fights? The business side of boxing is making it to where there is only a single fight with any type of legacy on the line, and that's the Ward-Kovalev fight. GGG's fight is a no-lose proposition, Canelo-Smith is a waste of time, the heavyweights are not fighting each other, Crawford needs another name opponent immediately, and then there are the PBC welterweights. At this time, Haymon needs to match these guys up to create a superstar with PPV ability. Thurman-Spence is a fight I want to see. Put Garcia in that mix too. Whoever comes out of that is a star. But the holding pattern by keeping these guys apart (Porter-Thurman was good, but Porter was always flawed. Then again, Thurman did not look great in this fight.) is only delaying the ascent of the PBC product and the face of its series.

[nycsmooth]

They both should have been gone more than a year ago but it's the $$$...

[MasterPlan]

As these threads usually devolve into this discussion, allow me the honor to commence the Haymon-HBO debate. First, the amounts that both Guerrero and Angulo received are noteworthy. $500K for Guerrero in particular is remarkable. He's obviously a well established fighter, but can anyone expect him to carry a show on his own at this point in his career? Who wouldn't step in the ring for that amount for a supposed tune up fight against Peralta? Any other promoter/adviser going to put up that kind of cash for such a fight? I don't think so, because it doesn't make business sense. UCN states that attendance was poor for this event, which is not a surprise. Hopefully the advertising dollars were enough to cover the costs of the event.

Second, why is Haymon putting on programs with the leftovers from HBO from a decade ago? Angulo has not been well, even past his contender status when he was beat by Lara and Kirkland. (Cintron has accomplished enough frustrating other boxers, so there is no shame in losing to him.) He was served up to Canelo, which quite frankly should have been the end of his career. Then he gets $100K to fight Hernandez? That's all the reasons you need to lace them up this weekend. However, I find it a hard sell to market this fight to anyone with any knowledge of these fighters' recent history. 10 years ago this is a HBO double header worth seeing with these 2 guys as co-headliners. Today? I think we got what we paid for, which was free thanks to Haymon.

In short, I cannot see how much longer this business model holds up for Haymon. What are the guarantees for Angulo and Guerrero for their next fights? Who is going to show up, or much less tune in for these fights? The business side of boxing is making it to where there is only a single fight with any type of legacy on the line, and that's the Ward-Kovalev fight. GGG's fight is a no-lose proposition, Canelo-Smith is a waste of time, the heavyweights are not fighting each other, Crawford needs another name opponent immediately, and then there are the PBC welterweights. At this time, Haymon needs to match these guys up to create a superstar with PPV ability. Thurman-Spence is a fight I want to see. Put Garcia in that mix too. Whoever comes out of that is a star. But the holding pattern by keeping these guys apart (Porter-Thurman was good, but Porter was always flawed. Then again, Thurman did not look great in this fight.) is only delaying the ascent of the PBC product and the face of its series.

This was not a huge PBC card. A huge PBC card was your Thurman-Porter and Cuellar-Mares. This was just one of many PBC cards. You have Guerrero fighting a no name cab driver (literally.) Every card is not gonna be a huge event. This was probably a middle of the pack card

The upcoming Garcia-Berto, Charlo-Williams and Zlaticanin-Garcia card is a huge PBC card.

[Boxfan83]

This was not a huge PBC card. A huge PBC card was your Thurman-Porter and Cuellar-Mares. This was just one of many PBC cards. You have Guerrero fighting a no name cab driver (literally.) Every card is not gonna be a huge event. This was probably a middle of the pack card

The upcoming Garcia-Berto, Charlo-Williams and Zlaticanin-Garcia card is a huge PBC card.

Garcia vs. Berto (vomit worthy) Charlo-Williams (is a good fight but should be a unification) & Zlaticanin-Garcia is PBC?

[MasterPlan]

Garcia vs. Berto (vomit worthy) Charlo-Williams (is a good fight but should be a unification) & Zlaticanin-Garcia is PBC?

Charlo-Williams can't be a unification. He's not fighting his brother. Smith is fighting Canelo and Lara and him share the same trainer.

[Boxfan83]

Charlo-Williams can't be a unification. He's not fighting his brother. Smith is fighting Canelo and Lara and him share the same trainer.

Yeah i figured the brother thing and ok cool it gets a pass, didnt realize they have the same trainer. Good fight then for what can be made... Garcia vs Berto is still garbage though.

[Eff Pandas]

Its the way boxing is setup that keeps guys around past there Best By date. Guys value isn't based on their skill. Its based on their name &/or ability to sell tickets.

If you are a mid 30's 2nd tier level shortstop in baseball who made it to the majors for a couple years you can be stuck in triple A ball or lower making $12k/minimum a year once you drop down a lil in skill. If you are a mid 30's 2nd tier level boxer you might be making career high money or at least still decent money cuz now your name has more value than earlier in your career plus the quality control of boxing allows for you to secure wins vs lower level guys which keeps your value up unlike in more competitive sports where if you aren't among the top 500-1,000 guys in the world you gotta take a drop to a lower level, & a paycut, of your chosen profession.