Haymon lost 430 million in one year!

[MaksBox]

This is the part that seems sketchy to me..

The money invested by Waddell is less than 1% of their holdings.. Even if they lose everything in PBC, it's still only less than 1% of holdings and should have no impact on the bottom line. From what I have read, Waddell stock price and value has dropped over 18%, which means a lot of their other bigger investments has gone south. There is no way for Pbc to cause that big of a drop. I think the lawsuit is legit, just that boxing progandaists are spinning this like it's all the doing of PBC, when in fact there is a lot more wrong at Waddell which is the primary cause of the lawsuit. Pbc might be highlighted as an example, but I'm sure it's just a minor piece of evidence, and nothing criminal or malicious towards investors. All Waddell has to say is that ufc just sold for 4 billion and lost lots of money early,, pbc was on the same course

No not at all. You are confusing two different issues.

The money Wadell & Reed, in this case IVY funds has invested in PBC and other investments is not Wadell's money... it is investor's money that Wadell & Reed is managing.

So...for example, 100 million in investments raised from investors, W&R let's say makes 1% on. Their earnings are only 1 mil. The company may only be worth 2 or 3... etc.

Ie the money you have in your bank.... is not your bank's money.... they only make money on loaning it out etc.

Hedge Funds and Mutual funds make money on management fees and performance fees on the money that they manage.

So W&R LOST not their own money per say, but their investor's money that they were managing for them.

Investors are claiming it was a fraudulent and unsuitable investment.

Those reports are ALL public filings and all legit.

(yes, I work in finance.)

[MaksBox]

Here is a good summary of the lawsuits.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/0...nto-boxing.htm

[MaksBox]

... and this is the guy who made those investments.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-caldwell-8780a511

In short... He managed the funds, invested close to $1 billion in PBC. Did not disclose prior relationship with PBC and Hayman.

Then he "quits".... and goes to work for Hayman as an advisor.

So that is why investors are pissed.... (even though it was only about 1% of the fund's assets).... it was arguably an unsuitable, high risk investment with questionable motives.

[PAC-BOY]

:aor::aor::aor::aor:

[Rip Chudd]

If losing keeps us in all these good fights we have seen thus far this year then i hope he stays losing money

[Motorcity Cobra]

No not at all. You are confusing two different issues.

The money Wadell & Reed, in this case IVY funds has invested in PBC and other investments is not Wadell's money... it is investor's money that Wadell & Reed is managing.

So...for example, 100 million in investments raised from investors, W&R let's say makes 1% on. Their earnings are only 1 mil. The company may only be worth 2 or 3... etc.

Ie the money you have in your bank.... is not your bank's money.... they only make money on loaning it out etc.

Hedge Funds and Mutual funds make money on management fees and performance fees on the money that they manage.

So W&R LOST not their own money per say, but their investor's money that they were managing for them.

Investors are claiming it was a fraudulent and unsuitable investment.

Those reports are ALL public filings and all legit.

(yes, I work in finance.)

Here are the full tweets from the guy who posted the tweet. Not from whomever wrote that article.

Waddell's alleged investments into Al Haymon's corp en****** seem to have $301M fair value on 6/30. Appeared to lose $434M over last year.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@heynottheface The supposed $925M into Media Group Holdings. Is that what you mean? Or into PBC itself?

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@heynottheface From that lawsuit, everything reads like PBC is major component, but who knows for sure.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@AdamTBV Can't say just off financial reports. But fair value losses seemed to pick up steam since April 2015.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 9, 2016

[MaksBox]

Here are the full tweets from the guy who posted the tweet. Not from whomever wrote that article.

Waddell's alleged investments into Al Haymon's corp en****** seem to have $301M fair value on 6/30. Appeared to lose $434M over last year.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@heynottheface The supposed $925M into Media Group Holdings. Is that what you mean? Or into PBC itself?

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@heynottheface From that lawsuit, everything reads like PBC is major component, but who knows for sure.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016

@AdamTBV Can't say just off financial reports. But fair value losses seemed to pick up steam since April 2015.

— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 9, 2016

Yep, all of that info comes from public SEC filings.

They (W&R) invested for the funds into PBC/holdings group.

They now value those investments at far lower values.

While it is still a "paper loss", because PBC is a private company, we do not know the actual financial.

The only estimate that we get is by what W&R values their investment holdings.

If W&R, who does see the financials... (hopefully), believed the company was a profitable investment... they would not be writing down their investments.

Because PBC is a private investment... in reality... PBC may not even be providing W&R and other investors ANY audited financials, and W&R is merely going off of what they can find.

It is just as likely W&R is merely guessing the value and they may never see the money back again.

(hence the crux of the lawsuits.... private company, with no operating history, undisclosed relationship to investment manage, completely counter to what the fund supposedly was to be investing in)

[Weebler I]

It is just as likely W&R is merely guessing the value and they may never see the money back again.

If $925m has been committed and $430m spent, what has happened to the rest of the money? Are the funds frozen? or is Haymon waiting for the lawsuits to be dismissed to regain access to those funds?

[Motorcity Cobra]

Yep, all of that info comes from public SEC filings.

They (W&R) invested for the funds into PBC/holdings group.

They now value those investments at far lower values.

While it is still a "paper loss", because PBC is a private company, we do not know the actual financial.

The only estimate that we get is by what W&R values their investment holdings.

If W&R, who does see the financials... (hopefully), believed the company was a profitable investment... they would not be writing down their investments.

Because PBC is a private investment... in reality... PBC may not even be providing W&R and other investors ANY audited financials, and W&R is merely going off of what they can find.

It is just as likely W&R is merely guessing the value and they may never see the money back again.

(hence the crux of the lawsuits.... private company, with no operating history, undisclosed relationship to investment manage, completely counter to what the fund supposedly was to be investing in)

I read that story you posted and it said two other similar lawsuits have been thrown out. It also said PBC is less than 1%. Why are they specifically targeting PBC if the rest of investments are losing more money? And why does the amount invested keep going up? Last year it was said half a billion was invested now they seem to say one billion was invested

Roger Hoadley, a vice president and director of communications for Ivy Investment and Waddell & Reed Financial said in an email that the underlying facts of the new lawsuit are similar to two others that were dismissed last year. He said that while the claims are different, they all relate to a single investment in the company's Asset Strategy Funds that represents less than 1 percent of its holdings....Waddell & Reed announced recently that it would lay off 10 percent of its full-time employees, as its first quarter profits this year fell by 44 percent, the Kansas City Star reported.

[MaksBox]

You made me do the digging.

Here you go.
http://hosted.rightprospectus.com/Iv...&cu=8904&ss=IF

Click on Annual Statement
Scroll down.

Media Holdings Group is the investment in PBC.
We know that Ivy owns at least 5% of the company.

Media Group Holdings LLC, Series H 8-29-13 to 10-31-13 640 448,211 60,093Media Group Holdings LLC, Series I 4-23-13 to 11-8-13 381 209,901 151,166Media Group Holdings LLC, Series T 7-2-13 to 1-23-15 80 172,543 110,007

They put in $830,655,000 and now value their investment as worth only... 321,266,000.

So W&R, at least the Ivy Asset Strategy fund is sitting on a paper loss of $509 million.

the majority of the first investment has been written down. The second two, not yet.

What were the terms of those deals? No clue... private company and I do not have access to those investment documents.... but if the first series was marked down, odds are... that money has been burned through.

The only facts we do know... PBC took in at least $800 billion from W&R.... and W&R does not believe, at least their first investment is profitable.

It is quite possible... all of that money has already been spent and nothing to show for it.

The disclosure does say that the fund has not been paid ANY dividends or distributions from those investments over the last 12 months.