Bottom line: "Business fights" tarnishes legacies

[elgu]

Let me repeat this again.

One's legacy should have nothing to do with WHEN they fight, but what they do when they get in there.

Would I like to see prime for prime? Sure. But it's not a priority anymore. Here's why.

I'm reminded of Shane Mosley vs. Winky Wright - an example of your "prime vs prime" argument. I'm on record as saying I love one-sided clear dominant victories, but the first fight was a joke. Mosley had no chance against Wright's style and no business in that ring - many people knew it before he took the fight. Same as Crawford/Postol. Only casuals thought Postol had a chance.

Compare that to Mayweather/Mosley, where it was nowhere near a prime vs. prime since Mosley was shopworn (but still a threat). A much better fight to watch overall. Yet Mayweather got all sorts of excuses.

Mayweather/N'Dou was prime for prime yet nobody remembers that fight; everyone remembers Mayweather/Pacquiao despite the fact N'Dou brought it better than Manny.

Mayweather fought Canelo AT his prime yet still got excuses thrown at him.
Mayweather beat Guerrero IN his prime yet still got excuses thrown at him.
Mayweather beat a prime Ortiz yet still got excuses thrown at him.
Mayweather beat a prime Hatton yet still got excuses thrown at him.

So, he stopped. And I don't blame him.

Prime for prime is overrated when fans constantly overrate the quality of opponent, thus resulting in an excuse when their "unstoppable" fighter gets schooled by someone superior.

Meanwhile, some of the best and most notable fights in the past decade have not involved prime-for-prime. That's just the reality of the situation.

So just because a style isn't good you should duck(Mosley/Wright..Postol/Crawford)? GTFO. Duran fought Hearns which was a horrible style for him, and didn't duck. He took his defeat like a man.

Canelo was at 152 a move that mentally distressed Canelo to the point he made his own 155 division and refused to fight elsewhere until GGG exposed him,

Mosley never accomplished anything after the Mayweather defeat. Ergo Mayweather deserves no credit for that.

Guerreo and Ortiz are bums that never accomplished anything in the sport but beating Berto. He deserves flake for that.

Hatton was dragged to a division he where he had looked lousy. Mayweather should get flake for that.

Prime for Prime made every ATG what they are. Look at Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Duran. Then take a look at Money Mayweather.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

The way a boxing career is supposed to work is you put in work, prove your the best of the best, earn your big opportunity, capitalize on that opportunity, then start making business decisions at the tail end of your career.

Nowadays fighters are making business decisions with **** resumes

Yeah, I agree,,

I don't mind older proven guys like marquez, cotto, doñaire doing "business" fights, they have already fought the best. But when the young cats do it without have a few big fights under there belts, it makes no sense

[Combat Talk Radio]

Prime for Prime made every ATG what they are. Look at Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Duran. Then take a look at Money Mayweather.

Sugar Ray Leonard begged for a fight against a drunk, fat, washed up Duran. I don't see anyone criticizing him for that.

Duran quit. Leonard didn't beat him. Did that do any good for Duran? Nope. Did it do any good for Leonard? Nope because he's on record saying he was pissed off nobody gave him credit for making Duran quit. He didn't.

Hagler was the aggressor against Leonard yet lost. Did it do any good for Hagler to fight Leonard? Nope.


I'm not going to sit here and equate TBE with any of the Fabulous Four. That was an era of steroids and warriors. Long past.

But facts are facts - from 2000 onward, there has not been another fighter as well rounded and stylistically talented as Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[Kigali]

There seems to be a narrative that die hards love to follow. They act like when a fighter/their fighter chooses a business fight or make a business decision, it's great for their legacy and they praise the fighter once they win. Unfortunately what they fail to realize that it does the complete opposite to their legacy.

Let's put this in proper context. Floyd Mayweather Jr. made a "business decision" to hold off on fighting Pacquiao at the right time. He dragged it out as much as he could. What's the motive? More money? Allowing Manny to age and lose? Unfortunately the motive doesn't matter because what is factual is that win doesn't hold much merit compared to if he fought Pacquiao at his peak, let's say after Manny beat Cotto. A win over that version of Manny is a legendary and signature win.

I'm not attacking any particular fighter, more so the narrative that business decisions or fights are great for legacies. Look what Canelo is doing. First he fought Amir Khan which was a business decision. Did that win do anything for his legacy? Absolutely not. Now he is allowing the GGG fight to "marinate". Again, what is the actual motive? Wanting GGG to age? Allowing GGG to build up his fan base? Who the hell knows but let's say GGG's skills has obviously dwindled down when they fight or let's say GGG loses than if Canelo beats him then that win doesn't hold much merit compared to fighting him now in September.

Bottom line is you cannot have things both ways. Either you choose business fights or you are thinking about your legacy which means fighting fights at the right time. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately life doesn't work that way. It's one or the other.

Not a word about GGG's business fight with a friggin' WW.

Hypocrite as.s fanboy.

[Wolfie*]

Not a word about GGG's business fight with a friggin' WW.

Hypocrite as.s fanboy.

Same applies to him and andre ward. Just because I didn't put them in there doesn't mean it doesn't apply to them too dumb dumb.

[Kigali]

Same applies to him and andre ward. Just because I didn't put them in there doesn't mean it doesn't apply to them too dumb dumb.

You didn't include GGG's business fight against a damn WW because you didn't want to.

I don't know what Ward has to do with any of this besides having Gigi fanboys scared to death.

[Wolfie*]

You didn't include GGG's business fight against a damn WW because you didn't want to.

I don't know what Ward has to do with any of this besides having Gigi fanboys scared to death.

GGG should have fought Ward already. I could have put GGG as well but posters were already b*tching about the length of the original post calling it a "book". You get the gist of what it is and it applies to everyone. I don't d*ck ride fighters like majority on here, not my style nor that I care to defend someone that much. This is just reality of the situation and people are blinded by their favoritism.

[Robbie Barrett]

Here's the problem with one part of what you're saying. The best way to build a legacy is to move up a class and fight a bigger guy. When one fighter moves up a class, that means his opponent is by definition fighting a smaller fighter.

The fan bases on NSB are so ridiculously fickle in their love and hate for the fighters they can't recognize it. They automatically roast both the smaller fighter for "cashing out" and the bigger fighter "for taking easy fights". It doesn't prevent them from singing a completely different tune when they demand that fighter to move up.


I had some time to think about it, and rewatch some old tapes.. as a result, I don't mind the bigger vs. smaller matchup as much anymore. Some of the greatest fights of the 80s and 90s were when guys a division or two apart met. Prior to that, weight classes were even less of a divisor, with fighters like MW Harry Greb building their legacy against Gene Tunney. As a matter of fact, Greb remains one of the definign wins of Tunney's career, even though Gene was a much bigger man.

As long as the size disparity is not huge and the matchup makes sense for both fighters, I say go for it. I wont hold it against a fighter for NOT pursuing the bigger guy, that's their choice. But if they want to do it, best of luck to both of them and may the best man win.

Don't worry the Brook fight won't tarnish Lil G's Legacy, he needs to create one first.

[elgu]

Sugar Ray Leonard begged for a fight against a drunk, fat, washed up Duran. I don't see anyone criticizing him for that.

Duran quit. Leonard didn't beat him. Did that do any good for Duran? Nope. Did it do any good for Leonard? Nope because he's on record saying he was pissed off nobody gave him credit for making Duran quit. He didn't.

Hagler was the aggressor against Leonard yet lost. Did it do any good for Hagler to fight Leonard? Nope.


I'm not going to sit here and equate TBE with any of the Fabulous Four. That was an era of steroids and warriors. Long past.

But facts are facts - from 2000 onward, there has not been another fighter as well rounded and stylistically talented as Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Sure but Floyd caught with the needle inside him did no wrong. At least those guys fought each other. They're all cheaters but at least in the past they fought each other and didn't play the "I'm a businessman card". I'm done with you. I don't try to write rationally to those incapable of grasping simple concepts.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Sure but Floyd caught with the needle inside him did no wrong.

Your error is, Floyd wasn't caught with a needle inside him. He was administered an IV under the direct supervision of USADA, who went on record saying they were physically there when it was administered, and why.

Problem is, you're looking for an excuse. The fact remains, Mayweather looks no physically different now than he did 10 years ago except for the goatee and his eyes. His performance is the exact same in every fight. There's ZERO evidence of PEDs.

Compared to Mosley, Margacheato, Marquez, and Manny (the Four M's of PED). Three of four guys Floyd Mayweather made easy work of.

That's my point. Done.