A return to the original weight class system

[Zaroku]

I'm in total support of this system.

For one thing, you have to look at the smaller weights- 105, 108, 112, 115, 118, 122, 126, 130. That is EIGHT divisions separated by TWENTY-FIVE pounds. Now, THAT is ridiculous and there's no other way to put it- corrupt. The only reason for having so many classes so close together is not for fighter safety in the least. It is about more titles and more money. The other divisions are a bit more understandable and cruiserweight could stay and make it nine. I'm okay with that, but the others should go for sure.

Another thing is to look at the possible tournaments that could follow. The 105, 108 and 112 pound champions could all face off along with the 115 and 118 pound champions, the 122 and 126 pound champions, the 130 and 135, the 140 and 147, the 154 and the 160 and the 168 and 175. Seven tournaments all with guys who had enough talent to win a belt at least. That could be very interesting.

A third thing is for legacy. The middleweights of yore like Robinson, LaMotta and Graziano can't be compared to fighters who spent their careers at 154. I mean, of course, they can but it's more difficult because those guys never fought at 160. So who can say? The more we get back to all the world rules is better IMO. I am nostalgic, but I also think most modern changes over the last fifty years gave us more problems than solutions to problems that were fabricated only for seedy reasons.

This is a money sport and money drives it. However, how can it make money if there's no respect for it any longer? The other sports crown one champion per year- just one. UFC has its weight classes set and they're not changing. That is good for the sport. it avoids confusion and helps casual fans become hardcore fans. If these changes did take place, there would be different views on whether or not the modern changes should have been done away with. However, I doubt the majority would have been in favor of so many titles and so many weight divisions. It would be laughed at by future eras of fans.

Interesting idea:

Would guys like PAC, ODLH, etc, be stripped of titles ex post facto?

Some guys on this site, want slow motion for May/PAC only. Not PAC/Marquez 3.

The point I am trying to make is simple, how do you implement any change in boxing, when the sanctioning bodies can't, and won't agree on many things?
Additionally, state gaming commissions have different rules.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Interesting idea:

Would guys like PAC, ODLH, etc, be stripped of titles ex post facto?

Some guys on this site, want slow motion for May/PAC only. Not PAC/Marquez 3.

The point I am trying to make is simple, how do you implement any change in boxing, when the sanctioning bodies can't, and won't agree on many things?
Additionally, state gaming commissions have different rules.

No. What's done is done. Even with the extra weight classes going, those who held the titles still should get recognition. It wasn't their fault, after all.

The problem is there are too many sanctioning bodies. How to get rid of them? My best guess is that the money has to go down enough that fighters don't want to pay sanctioning fees and they go under. Whatever it takes, I'm ready for the sport to go back and make things simpler and much more exciting.

[Zaroku]

No. What's done is done. Even with the extra weight classes going, those who held the titles still should get recognition. It wasn't their fault, after all.

The problem is there are too many sanctioning bodies. How to get rid of them? My best guess is that the money has to go down enough that fighters don't want to pay sanctioning fees and they go under. Whatever it takes, I'm ready for the sport to go back and make things simpler and much more exciting.

Fair approach.

Implemention would be an interesting issue to undertake.

I asked many of the slow motion video guys (Floyd vs PAC). How would such a system be implemented? For the purely ******ed, the only wanted it applied to Floyd vs PAC, but not all previous fights in history.

Not trying to change the topic, but I see similarities in the underlying issues, but you what you are proposing cannot invalidate previous titles.

So may vs PAC in slow motion is meaningless also.

Makes sense to me.

[Contra]

You obviously are just typing & not reading what I'm saying. Like I keep saying most catchweights happen between guys you don't know & won't know. Canelo & A sides are doing 0.003% of the catchweight fights in boxing. Catchweight fights mostly happen at the club show level & other off TV events where fights get made with only days to prepare for a particular opponent & maybe he's heavy or maybe you haven't had time to train so your heavy cuz you got a full time job right now & all sorts of things like that that tends to come about with hours or days til fight time. I don't think you grasp how far boxing branches out.

Trust me, I'm reading your posts, but the best reasoning you can offer is that since the fights are low level and no one is that invested, than a CW shouldn't be an issue. Fine, you're right; it probably isn't an issue for the individuals, but that's still not a justification for their use. I don't give a shít if I know the fighters names or if it's some low-level club fight. I'm talking about standardizing aspects of the sport so stipulations like CWs can't ever be used to gain an advantage.

If a fighter can't make 147 because he hasn't had time to train, then the fight weight can be changed to 154 (or 160 if SWW didn't exist). Both guys can come in weighing whatever they want, as long as it's below 154. No catch weight needed. Would that really be a problem to anyone involved?

I suppose a system could be put into place where CWs are only allowed if you aren't ranked in the top 25 by whatever belt organization is sanctioning the fight. That way club fighters can do whatever the fúck they want, but world level boxers (who should be maintaining their weight anyway) would be expected to fight at a particular weight.

I never said it wasn't. Just that it doesn't happen that much that it should be considered a problem. Go list all the high profile guys commanding catchweights in the last 5 years that you got a problem with doing this. I'd bet you'd have problems coming up with 10 guys, hell maybe 5 guys. This is a made up problem on the mass scale. Banning catchweights would be like banning the purchase of guns for everyone cuz one guy went on a shooting spree.

Off the top of my head -
Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Broner.

However, I don't think it needs to be a widespread problem to still need to be addressed. The fact that the MW championship has been throatfúcked into oblivion over the past three years should lead boxing fans to demand a change. Also, one of the main points of my original post was that CWs can still exist, but they should be at a standard weight that is non-negotiable.

Even with the current weight class system, if fighter A is at 140 and fighter B is at 147, their should be a set CW in place that has to be respected.

However, fighter A is certainly more than welcome to flex nuts and sign up to fight at the full WW limit, but he shouldn't be forced to.

But again, I am being incredibly idealistic. There are so many competing en****** in boxing that would have to agree to the same set of rules. That's just one of the reasons why I believe we need an international governing body. Not likely to happen anytime soon, but still...

I want this sport to survive and thrive in the 21st century, and I believe that several changes need to be made in order to keep this sport legitimate in the eyes of the fans.

[LoadedWraps]

With the current "in-between" weights (130, 154, etc.) used as the only allowable catchweights.

A boxer must fight all matches at a legit weight class, and can only use a catchweight if he is fighting a boxer from the weight class above or below.

In addition, titles can never be on the line in a catchweight fight. Ever.

No one fighter is above the system, regardless of their fame or profitability.

Period.


Just an idea I had a while back, but I think this would solve a lot of problems in boxing. Less champions, and no weight issues to hash out during negotiations.

Would you approve of this type of weight class system?

I would support it.

I think less divisions, and the elimination of catchweights is a good thing.

The best should fight the best, period. Whether out of their own ambition, or with a gun to their head.

[Zaroku]

So we shouldn't try to stop our favorite sport from being a circus? Love that mentality. And I do believe that weight issues have been a big problem in boxing, especially in recent years. And yes, the situation with Canelo is a big part of the problem. He has been handed a a decent resume because he's an attractive Mexican that brings a huge fan base. Fan base = money = power. Now he is using that power to maintain his good resume and avoid fighting at a real weight class. But goddammit, why does this sport still need to be held hostage by greed?





Just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't ever address any of them. As a fan, I'd like to improve the sport, and not just remain satisfied with the status quo. I also believe that ring size should be standardized. One size fits all. Re-hydration is a tougher issue, but that would be solved with same-day weigh-ins, which I also wholeheartedly support.





Because in bigger fights it's usually not two guys agreeing to meet in the middle, it's the A-side using that leverage to gain any sort advantage on an opponent, whether or not the B-side appears to agree to the terms. Pac did it to Cotto, Floyd did it to Canelo, and Canelo's doing it to everybody.





Again, you are merely stating the reality of the current situation, but not justifying the validity of the situation. Would it be that terrible to force all boxers to fight in one weight class or the other? God forbid they actually have to maintain their weight in order to be professional fighters...





MMA fighters seem to be doing fine. Either permanently cut weight, or eat some steak and potatoes and put on some muscle. Fighters in the UFC have moved up and down and have been successful in different weight classes, and these are legit jumps, not 5-6 pounds. And the arguments aren't silly. I would venture to guess that many big fights in recent years haven't been won or lost in the ring, but in the gym when the fighter was trying to make weight, or in the sauna two hours before the weigh-in. When you shed every ounce of fat on your body, two more pounds can make a big difference.





I will concede to this point. I'm sure fans will just find other things to argue about, but again, just because we can't fix every problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to remedy specific issues. Weight seems like a common source of problems during negotiations, so it stands to reason that eliminating that problem would make fights easier to negotiate, right?
Less bullshít, more big fights.

Awesome stuff!! Really great. A corrupt sport like boxing cleaned up by fans.?
Show me a plan to implement it, and I will join you.

I think back to a time when I was young, and Mick Jagger was much younger, he sung, " hey you, get off of my cloud, ..."

I miss being young and optimistic! That is a gift from God, please never lose it.

It seems like catch weights spread faster than compassion. Sad isn't it?

[Eff Pandas]

If a fighter can't make 147 because he hasn't had time to train, then the fight weight can be changed to 154 (or 160 if SWW didn't exist).

Well thats what is basically happening anyway. Thats why I don't have a problem with it. Canelo is a middleweight whether he likes it or not. Those fictional guys I keep talking about agreeing to fight at 143lbs are welterweights like it or not. None of these fights are REALLY catchweights. Catchweight is more of a catchword than a thing in boxing. Its really just two guys making a contract with each other outside of the normal requirements of boxing to fit their unique individual demands.

Off the top of my head -
Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Broner.

Fair enough I forgot about Broner. Again though my main point is its a very small segment of people that are the REAL PROBLEM.

But again, I am being incredibly idealistic. There are so many competing en****** in boxing that would have to agree to the same set of rules. That's just one of the reasons why I believe we need an international governing body. Not likely to happen anytime soon, but still...

I want this sport to survive and thrive in the 21st century, and I believe that several changes need to be made in order to keep this sport legitimate in the eyes of the fans.

I'd actually love to see more conformity & streamlining happening in boxing, but its never going to happen til there is some NFL of boxing that can be pro-boxing in a way none of these commissions, alphabet groups, promoters, managers & networks all competing for their own money in the sport can.

[Eastcoast]

Don't you think it'd just be easier to assign a guy a weight class based on various determining factors (BMI, gravity testing, your body type, etc) upon getting your initial boxing license to come up with a healthy weight range? Then we get rid of weight cutting entirely with everyone fighting at their walking around weight. Then we'd just need to weigh guys before fights & make sure they were within their healthy weight range & from there just make sure the other guy is within a reasonable weight distance from the opponent.

One of my biggest boxer related problems in boxing is the weight cutting sport within a sport that making weight opens things up for.

You'll never get rid of weight cutting, it's a great example of game theory in practice. But yeah you're spot on with the preliminary testing to assign fighters to a class (or limit how low they are allowed to cut). Currently, California and Arkansas are both doing that for amateur boxing & mma fighters.

I agree though, extreme weight cutting hurts the sport. It either hurts the fighter making the cut or it provides an unfair advantage for some young fighters and puts their naturally smaller opponents in serious danger.

[sicko]

Nobody is going to change rules for YOU or any of these new boxing fans who now want to change things not because it needs to be change but more so because it can potentially benefit the fighter THEY LIKE!

[Eff Pandas]

You'll never get rid of weight cutting, it's a great example of game theory in practice.

Why do you think weight cutting will stick around?

I feel like its only a matter of time before someone figures out that weight cutting is bad for athletes body's long term & dangerous in the short term via serious & life ending brain injuries & does something about it. I see it changing already with the stuff like you mentioned. Not gonna happen anytime soon or anything, but I suspect it will.