"Daring to Be Great" Has an Expensive Pricetag and it Always Has

[-PBP-]

Is there less top fights because there is no money, or is there less money because there are less top fights?

Its seems to me big fights still get attention in the media, and big fights still get people paid.

The problem seems to be the kind of fights which fighters and promoters feel are the big fights, really arent. They are actually fights between contenders or bog standard defences which should be the norm.

You can just look at HBO's budget to answer that question. Look at what Mayweather was being paid as a young champion to take on the toughest fights:

Mayweather/Corrales - Mayweather $1.7 million/Corrales $1.4 million (and keep in mind Floyd was not a big seller yet)

Mayweather/Castillo 1 - Mayweather $2.2 million/Castillo $1.1 million

The only fighters HBO is paying that kind of money right now is Ward and Golovkin and they are already on the other side of 30.

[The Big Dunn]

This is a great thread. "Daring to be great" would be fighting tougher opposition for the same or less money as you would lesser opposition.

Example: If Golovkin was chasing Ward instead of Canelo, that would be daring to be great. Significantly tougher opponent for a significantly less payday.

The fact that he's chasing Canelo has nothing to do with how good Canelo is. If he truly wanted a challenge he knows where to go. It's about getting paid and becoming a superstar. If a lesser fighter allows that then so be it. His whole "I want all the belts" shtick Is going old. If that were true, he wouldn't have let Cotto pay him off to have the Canelo fight.

Let's not forget about Golovkin getting a pass from a lot of people for wanting to fight Froch and not Ward. Why because Froch makes more money and "Ward can't sell out his hometown doe."

The Amir Khan situation is tricky because not only was Canelo the biggest payday, but he was a stiffer challenge than any welterweight willing to fight Khan. However, the payday was so huge that most feel this is a case of daring to be paid, because if Canelo was the same fighter with no fan base, Khan ain't fighting him. Not when Kell Brook and Danny Garcia are available.

Excellent points and I agree with all of them.

[Tom Cruise]

You can just look at HBO's budget to answer that question. Look at what Mayweather was being paid as a young champion to take on the toughest fights:

Mayweather/Corrales - Mayweather $1.7 million/Corrales $1.4 million (and keep in mind Floyd was not a big seller yet)

Mayweather/Castillo 1 - Mayweather $2.2 million/Castillo $1.1 million

The only fighters HBO is paying that kind of money right now is Ward and Golovkin and they are already on the other side of 30.

Those are all top fights though. Mayweather was very highly rated even before he became a megastar post ODLH, and Castillo/ Corrales are extremely popular Mexican warriors.

Whats more, they all took tough fights before they were making this kind of money.

My point big fights bring big money, not the other way around, either due to the actual match up making money, or the hype from winning that fight increasing future earnings.

Not a single fighter from the OP got to those paydays without having to fight top competition previously

[-PBP-]

Those are all top fights though. Mayweather was very highly rated even before he became a megastar post ODLH, and Castillo/ Corrales are extremely popular Mexican warriors.

Whats more, they all took tough fights before they were making this kind of money.

My point big fights bring big money, not the other way around, either due to the actual match up making money, or the hype from winning that fight increasing future earnings.

Not a single fighter from the OP got to those paydays without having to fight top competition previously

If it was about competitive match-ups we would see more of them. Crawford/Postol is a PPV fight because HBO doesn't have enough money to pay for the best to fight the best. Walters/Lomachenko fell through because HBO didn't have the funds to make the fight happen. Kovalev/Stevenson isn't happening because HBO doesn't have the funds to win the purse bid. The list goes on.

If HBO had the same budget that they had in the 90s, these fights would be happening. It costs money to get the best to fight the best. On a $30 million budget, many of those fights in the OP probably never happen.

[Tom Cruise]

If it was about competitive match-ups we would see more of them. Crawford/Postol is a PPV fight because HBO doesn't have enough money to pay for the best to fight the best. Walters/Lomachenko fell through because HBO didn't have the funds to make the fight happen. Kovalev/Stevenson isn't happening because HBO doesn't have the funds to win the purse bid. The list goes on.

If HBO had the same budget that they had in the 90s, these fights would be happening. It costs money to get the best to fight the best. On a $30 million budget, many of those fights in the OP probably never happen.

Do you think Crawford vs Postol or Wlaters vs Loma is the same level of matchup as Mayweather vs Castillo or Corrales? I dont. Not in terms of quality or marketability.

The fact that they are demanding big money for these fights is indicative of the problem. They are very good fight. They are not that good though.

[-PBP-]

Do you think Crawford vs Postol or Wlaters vs Loma is the same level of matchup as Mayweather vs Castillo or Corrales? I dont. Not in terms of quality or marketability.

The fact that they are demanding big money for these fights is indicative of the problem. They are very good fight. They are not that good though.

What marketability??:

Mayweather fought Corrales before 7,791 at MGM Grand in Las Vegas, but 2,698
were complimentaries. The 5,093 tickets sold generated a total gate of
$959,000, an average of $188

Can you imagine how empty the MGM must've been that night? Crawford/Postol will probably be within reasonable range of that figure.

In hindsight, we know that Floyd and Corrales turned out to be phenomenal fighters. But at that particular time, this was nothing more than two undefeated potential stars fighting to determine who was the best at 130.

[The Big Dunn]

What marketability??:



Can you imagine how empty the MGM must've been that night? Crawford/Postol will probably be within reasonable range of that figure.

In hindsight, we know that Floyd and Corrales turned out to be phenomenal fighters. But at that particular time, this was nothing more than two undefeated potential stars fighting to determine who was the best at 130.

This was at a time when having an HBO deal made other fighters more willing to fight you because it meant exposure. A win would propel you to a bigger payday or maybe an HBO deal. Fighters were built (meaning developed) differently. Risk was rewarded so you had many more 50/50 and 60/40 fights.

That's not how things work nowadays.

[-PBP-]

This was at a time when having an HBO deal made other fighters more willing to fight you because it meant exposure. A win would propel you to a bigger payday or maybe an HBO deal. Fighters were built (meaning developed) differently. Risk was rewarded so you had many more 50/50 and 60/40 fights.

That's not how things work nowadays.

HBO has changed. They learned that they can get guys like Willie Monroe, Jr., James Kirkland, Dierry Jean and others for cheap and get the exact same ratings that they would for a competitive fight. So why spend millions upon millions on boxing when mismatches get you equally as good ratings than competitive fights?

Plus, you look at the Donaire/Rigondeaux situation where they invested so much money into Donaire only to have that momentum derailed in one night. And for what? 1.2 million viewers? In hindsight they probably regret ever making that fight. They could have saved Donaire to build Lomachenko or Oscar Valdez.

[Tom Cruise]

What marketability??:



Can you imagine how empty the MGM must've been that night? Crawford/Postol will probably be within reasonable range of that figure.

In hindsight, we know that Floyd and Corrales turned out to be phenomenal fighters. But at that particular time, this was nothing more than two undefeated potential stars fighting to determine who was the best at 130.

How marketable do you think fights like Crawford/Postol and Loma/Walters are? Crawford is a good draw in Omaha (though i doubt they charge Vegas prices for tickets, and they dont get casino money for hosting), the rest range from average to poor.

You are comparing very different fights imo. Crawford vs an undefeated, hyped Mexican American in a no.1 vs no.2 unification would probably net similar purses to the May vs Corrales fight

HBO just dont have the stable now to put together the type of fights that warrant big purses. The good fights they are doing, the fighters are asking for so much money that they have go on PPV.

[-PBP-]

How marketable do you think fights like Crawford/Postol and Loma/Walters are? Crawford is a good draw in Omaha (though i doubt they charge Vegas prices for tickets, and they dont get casino money for hosting), the rest range from average to poor.

You are comparing very different fights imo. Crawford vs an undefeated, hyped Mexican American in a no.1 vs no.2 unification would probably net similar purses to the May vs Corrales fight

HBO just dont have the stable now to put together the type of fights that warrant big purses. The good fights they are doing, the fighters are asking for so much money that they have go on PPV.

The purses for Crawford and Postol are not outrageous in the least bit and if this was 1999, this would not be a PPV. HBO used to pay $6-10 million for fights like Mosley vs. Forest. Neither guy was a draw, their budget was just significantly larger. You can't ignore the facts bro: HBO's budget is approximately $30 million. In the late 90s it was in excess of $100 million. Less money = less fights. FACT.

Golovkin/Lemeiux happened why? Because Lemieux was "daring to be great" No, because they found the money to pay Lemieux market value for a middleweight championship unification fight.

You want to live in a world where unification fights and fights between two top fighters in their prime get signed and sealed for $350-500K. That's just not going to happen.

Since you don't like Mayweather/Corrales, how much did it cost Cory Spinks make to put his titles on the line against Zab Judah? He made $800,000 in the first fight and $1 million in the rematch. Was Spinks a draw? Was that a fight were were anxious to see? No. HBO was just throwing more money around back then.