Connection between deaths in the ring and fathers in the corner?

[Batfrett]

This is based on the The Manuel Velazquez Fatality Collection, which started out as just a guy collecting newspaper clippings but grew into a more complete database of fatalities in boxing and seems to be the most accurate record out there. It includes fighters believed to died due to injuries from boxing.

Well, I got in touch with Joseph Svinth, who created and maintains the Manuel Velazquez Fatality Collection. He gave me some tips and was kind enough to email me his raw data and explain the methodology.

It's a lot to go through - the data begins in 1724. I'm trying to focus on 1980-2016, and even that small window includes 300 names; he suggests that the only way to find out which of those 300 guys had their fathers in their corners is to google each name, one by one...

I'll start working through it tomorrow.

[Eff Pandas]

Well, I got in touch with Joseph Svinth, who created and maintains the Manuel Velazquez Fatality Collection. He gave me some tips and was kind enough to email me his raw data and explain the methodology.

It's a lot to go through - the data begins in 1724. I'm trying to focus on 1980-2016, and even that small window includes 300 names; he suggests that the only way to find out which of those 300 guys had their fathers in their corners is to google each name, one by one...

I'll start working through it tomorrow.

Nice, but f#ck at the googling lol. The biggest problem with that is usually there aren't a lot of details with these injuries or deaths. I guess you'll be able to find out some % even if its not based on the full 300 guys so that should be interesting. Looking forward to seeing your results.

Also whats the top theories why having a father in the corner could make a severe injury or death more likely? Feels like his kid is special & immune to this level of injury? Can't happen to me or mine syndrome. Feels like he's being too soft with his kid so allows things to go well past a point most would stop a fight?

I'm also curious if this is just about dad's & not about long term relationships as when I was looking up guys since seeing this thread I've noticed a few of these guys had trainers that they've been with since they were kids first getting into boxing. Obviously that'd be a much harder stat to confirm with the info out there, but naturally my mind went to "why" when first seeing this thread & most of the things that could be problems with dads in the corner seem like they could be problems with guys who've trained men since they were children too.

[Batfrett]

Also whats the top theories why having a father in the corner could make a severe injury or death more likely? Feels like his kid is special & immune to this level of injury? Can't happen to me or mine syndrome. Feels like he's being too soft with his kid so allows things to go well past a point most would stop a fight?

I'm also curious if this is just about dad's & not about long term relationships as when I was looking up guys since seeing this thread I've noticed a few of these guys had trainers that they've been with since they were kids first getting into boxing. Obviously that'd be a much harder stat to confirm with the info out there, but naturally my mind went to "why" when first seeing this thread & most of the things that could be problems with dads in the corner seem like they could be problems with guys who've trained men since they were children too.

No solid answers as to why fathers are bad cornermen, but I've seen the same speculative suggestions a few times:

1. It is hard to be objective with your son because you love him, and you care about his feelings; a hired trainer, on the other hand, sees his fighter as a client and revenue source, and is protective of him because the trainer's reputation and livelihood are at stake. Basically, the father is more interested in his son WINNING, and the trainer is more interested in the fighter SURVIVING to fight again


2. Sons might want to impress their fathers more than regular trainers, and not admit that they want to quit

3. Fathers are much more likely to try to live vicariously through their sons than a trainer who has handled lots of boxers in a professional capacity are

4. If the ref knows a boxer has his dad in the corner, he might not be as proactive as he otherwise would be, because he might assume the dad will be protective of the son and/or be better at recognizing when the kid is in trouble (also, refs usually do step in when they feel a fighter is taking too much punishment, but they usually get booed for doing it, and might want to pass the responsibility/blame to the dad when they can)

And no, I've seen the "father in the corner is the most common factor in the most dangerous fights" too many times for it to be about how long a fighter and pro trainer have worked together.

[Motorcity Cobra]

Great thread

[aldo5408]

Great research bro

[Eff Pandas]

Daniel Franco who received a brain injury & is still in a coma from his last fight with Jose Haro was trained & cornered by his father, Al Franco & his assistant trainer is actually his brother Michael Franco.

[New England]

Here's a list I put together last night of fighters who died or were seriously hurt with their fathers in their corners since 1980:

Died with father in corner:

Jimmy Garcia (1995)

Johnny Owens (1980)

Kiko Bejines (1983)

Rico Velazquez (1988)

Leavander Johnson (2005)

Francisco “Paco” Rodriguez (2009)

Braydon Smith (2015)

Bobby Tomasello (2000)

David “El Terry” Acevedo (2015; father in corner refused to stop fight)



Seriously injured with father in corner:

Gabriel Rosado (2013 - in a fight where he was pummeled so badly that the trainer literally BEGGED Rosado’s father to let him stop the fight)

Fernie Morales (1991 – brain damaged, but survived, and never fought again)

Jason Rushton (2009 - brain damaged, but survived)

Prichard Colon (2015 – brain damaged, but may survive)

Billy Ray Collins Jr. (1984; father in corner, discovered opponent Luis Resto's gloves had had the padding removed)

gabe rosado was not seriously injured. certainly doesn't fit in with a bunch of guys who went into comas, or billy collins whose eyesight was compromised by plaster and the removal of padding by panama lewis.