Waddell investment down to the last 82M? OUT of (521M)

[Sweet Jones]

Money talks,,, they could have bought any Saturday night on most cable channels.. Hell they could have taken every Tuesday or Wednesday night..
Their schedule just needs to be consistent..
There is no way they are ever gonna build or grow an audience with their current random schedule.. Bellator should have been their blueprint, instead of this "throw it everywhere and see what sticks"

and a network would give them whatever airtime as long as it was paid for.. Instead of spending 200 million across 10 channels, they could have used that money to buy one channel, and actual have a show that in theory could attract viewers and grow an audience.

Can you name a few examples where a legit network, one that has a wide enough distribution and is a viable candidate to eventually pay for your 'boxing programming', sold off 40 weeks of 2 hours blocks of primetime Saturday night broadcast time?

There's a reason you don't ever see that.

Haymon having the money for it is meaningless unless you can name a network actually willing to sell that much time for an unproven concept that they don't control AND has the potential to leave their network if it proves successful.

[Sweet Jones]

Idk if going with just one channel is ideal either. I think you want to have the levels guys are at covered. For example I think NBC or Fox would be great for the bigger names in big fights, I think ESPN & Spike would be great for those names vs no name contenders or prospects & FoxSports 1 would be great for the contenders & prospects moving up the ladder still. PBC gots plenty of those types of guys to fill up cards at all of those levels. Just one network on board is gonna have a lot of guys holding their ****s for months at a time waiting on fights which isn't good either & would probably get a lot of guys off board with PBC &/or Haymon.

**SNIP*

Well said.

[original zero]

Sugar Adam -

Haymon's entire plan is to give as many networks as possible a taste so that when he goes to sell the package to one network, he has the highest chance possible of one of those networks biting (or multiple networks getting into a bidding war).

If he just bought time on ONE network, he'd have absolutely no leverage when the time came to sell his package.

He's showing all of these networks one by one that he can generate ratings when he wants to by staging a big fight.

In the meantime, he's keeping other promoters off of FS1, Spike and ESPN.

So not only is he preventing other promoters from getting on these channels, but he's giving himself the greatest chance possible that at least ONE of these many channels will take the plunge and pay for PBC exclusivity in a couple years.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Can you name a few examples where a legit network, one that has a wide enough distribution and is a viable candidate to eventually pay for your 'boxing programming', sold off 40 weeks of 2 hours blocks of primetime Saturday night broadcast time?

There's a reason you don't ever see that.

Haymon having the money for it is meaningless unless you can name a network actually willing to sell that much time for an unproven concept that they don't control AND has the potential to leave their network if it proves successful.

Espn just sold them every Friday night for the next 2 years.. Ufc started on TV as a time buy on foxsports.
Sports programming is the most valuable content on network TV.. Some network would take Haymon's money... BET, foxsports, espn2, spikeTV, nbcsports, axs, USA, etc someone would have taken the money, Saturday nights is a dead television night unless it's sports related..

Bellator has already done this and proven this model works... Pbc should have followed this blueprint..
There is absolutely no way to build and grow a casual audience if it's spread across so many channels and times..

And I get what your saying about different levels of shows, but if your going to have 50+ weekly fight cards, some will be SHObox caliber fights and some will be major fights, but as long as it's easy to find and follow for the casual, and it's competitive matchups like mma does, then you can begin to build and audience

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Sugar Adam -

Haymon's entire plan is to give as many networks as possible a taste so that when he goes to sell the package to one network, he has the highest chance possible of one of those networks biting (or multiple networks getting into a bidding war).

If he just bought time on ONE network, he'd have absolutely no leverage when the time came to sell his package.

He's showing all of these networks one by one that he can generate ratings when he wants to by staging a big fight.

In the meantime, he's keeping other promoters off of FS1, Spike and ESPN.

So not only is he preventing other promoters from getting on these channels, but he's giving himself the greatest chance possible that at least ONE of these many channels will take the plunge and pay for PBC exclusivity in a couple years.

You do realize no one is going to give pbc a network deal without having strong ratings.. In a year their ratings have trended downward..

You are putting the cart before the horse.. For a "bidding war" to happen pbc would first have to show a consistent and growing audience..

If your heavyweight star wilder is drawing 775k in viewers and ufc and wwe are pulling over 3 million on foxsports and USA..
The majority of the pbc cards don't draw anywhere near 3 million, let alone the 7 million UFC got on their fox debut.. But that's the difference between ufc giving us a legit world title fight for a debut and pbc giving garcia vs ghost..

[Sweet Jones]

Espn just sold them every Friday night for the next 2 years.. Ufc started on TV as a time buy on foxsports.
Sports programming is the most valuable content on network TV.. Some network would take Haymon's money... BET, foxsports, espn2, spikeTV, nbcsports, axs, USA, etc someone would have taken the money, Saturday nights is a dead television night unless it's sports related..

Bellator has already done this and proven this model works... Pbc should have followed this blueprint..
There is absolutely no way to build and grow a casual audience if it's spread across so many channels and times..

And I get what your saying about different levels of shows, but if your going to have 50+ weekly fight cards, some will be SHObox caliber fights and some will be major fights, but as long as it's easy to find and follow for the casual, and it's competitive matchups like mma does, then you can begin to build and audience

If that were indeed the case, then that in of itself would void your point for the need of a 'consistent schedule'. Your own logic would say casuals could just tune into ESPN every fight night for PBC action.

But we both know that's not true (PBC owning every Friday night on ESPN).

[Sugar Adam Ali]

If that were indeed the case, then that in of itself would void your point for the need of a 'consistent schedule'. Your own logic would say casuals could just tune into ESPN every fight night for PBC action.

But we both know that's not true (PBC owning every Friday night on ESPN).


Come on, bruh.

They have Friday night fights, which is usually like 30-40 cards, same time, same channel...


Bellator has done exactly what PBC wants to do.. It's a clear and proven method to establishing a show/audience..

How can bellator, wwe, Wsof, lion, legacy, tna, ROH, etc all land TV deals using the one network show to build an audience, but PBC can't. Once you build an audience, then it's easier to have "sister" shows on another network ala wwe's smackdown..

[original zero]

Sugar Adam -

PBC ratings are already stronger than most sports leagues. They'll get a network deal. There is just too much demand for live sports and too many interested networks for one of them not to bite.

But if PBC bought time on only one network, they'd be restricting interest to just that one network. NBC knows PBC can draw them a few million viewers on a Saturday, so it's on to the next one. Now Fox knows it. Soon CBS will know it.

Every sports league benefits from multiple bidders when their rights are up for grabs.

The majority of PBC cards are irrelevant. Just taking up space on FS1 & Spike so nobody else can get on those channels.

What matters is the big Saturday cards on NBC, Fox, CBS, etc. Millions are watching. Millions will watch Thurman vs Porter.

Go look up what an NHL game does on NBC and then look up how much NBC pays for NHL . . .

You guys live in that HBO propaganda bubble, so the facts may not matter.

[Eff Pandas]

Sugar Adam -

Haymon's entire plan is to give as many networks as possible a taste so that when he goes to sell the package to one network, he has the highest chance possible of one of those networks biting (or multiple networks getting into a bidding war).

If he just bought time on ONE network, he'd have absolutely no leverage when the time came to sell his package.

He's showing all of these networks one by one that he can generate ratings when he wants to by staging a big fight.

In the meantime, he's keeping other promoters off of FS1, Spike and ESPN.

So not only is he preventing other promoters from getting on these channels, but he's giving himself the greatest chance possible that at least ONE of these many channels will take the plunge and pay for PBC exclusivity in a couple years.

I agree, but there is something to be said for building a regular audience too.

I think PBC spread out among so many channels is a problem towards building an audience & I'd argue in particular a new audience which I think is what PBC is gonna have to do to make a "UFC of boxing". I think they could still do well without Bounce & some of these channels that haven't shown boxing in decades being involved.

For sure doe I think the reality is PBC is trying to block others from entering the "free tv boxing market", but there is an argument its at the cost of building & growing an audience quickly + saturating their own product is the downside of that.

[Ham Porter]

haymond is shady as ****, i wouldnt give that guy a dime.

everyone was always saying the rates they were paying the fighters didnt seem like the PBC show could be profitable, ive been saying all along haymond dont give two chits if PBC goes bankrupt because its not his money. Bigger purses for the fighters, bigger paydays for him. When PBC goes bankrupt, haymond still has all his fighters, he will just take them to a different station.

just lol @ buying 3 airplanes with investors money.haymond is a scam artist

I've referenced this theory before. It's the only plausible reason for him allowing PBC to be as terrible a product as it is.