Waddell investment down to the last 82M? OUT of (521M)

[bigdunny1]

Like I've said in another thread, boxing is huge when it wants to be huge. I mean hyuuuge.

So it's not really a bad investment. Mind-boggling part for me is with all the money and power Haymon had at his disposal he rarely made fights that were meaningful to casuals. The mismatches outnumber the competitive ones. Lara, for example, fought 3 cab drivers in a row for his last 3 fights. For what? For nothing. These are not the kinds of fights you would want your money to be invested in.

Yup spent more time and money investing in ****** American Gladiator like ramps and ******ed cameras attached to a head sweat band on refs then putting his best fighters in the ring against each other to make better fights to grab attention of casual sports fans. That would of helped his chances of success then lavish spending on gimmicks and overpaying his own fighters with his investors money for mismatches. There are so many examples of just foolish overspending for poultry results and massive net losses but the fights Haymon chose to feature for some crap called PREMIER Boxing Champions. Yet there were little to no actual Premier fights SMH that's probably top of the list of dumb decisions

[al-Xander]

People kept wondering what Haymon's end game was. There has to be. It never came. I thought leaving Showtime dry was enough and it was all he needed to showcase what he needed to. PBC starts and the showcasing continued. Williams, Lara, Andrade, Charlos... Haymon would rather pit them against cab drivers spending millions of dollars.

[Eff Pandas]

The writing is on the wall the end is near.

You're gonna make yourself miserable bro talking about stuff you don't like all the time.

Everyone knew from the start that PBC was a high risk proposition. Everyone. Haymon, the boxers, Waddell, the investors (even if they mad now cuz they lost money as are all investors when they lose money), HBO, Showtime, the fans, the f#cking Watson twins knew. If it fails it fails.

They certainly made some mistakes that have been costly that can be looked at in the future as a learning experience or one of the reasons for their downfall regardless if they succeed or fail. The painful thing for you is that even if PBC fails, the influence Haymon has on the sport won't be THAT unchanged. He'll still have 200+ boxers. He'll likely still have some of these promoter affiliations. Maybe he'll make a more serious effort to bring them "in" as thats been one of the major failures of PBC. He'll still have his relationship with Showtime. He could even parlay his many fighters into a new relationship with HBO that seems to be in the healing process already.

Personally regardless if PBC wins or loses I'm rooting for this powerful promoter era ending as its been one of the worst eras in boxing history with a focus on making boxing smaller & smaller with less & less freedoms for boxers. I'm rooting for more Haymon's coming into the sport with more money & more influence & creating a PBC II if this PBC fails. I mean the future of boxing is gonna get dimmer & dimmer until there is some elite boxing league that can have its full power behind supporting boxing 24/7/365 & not just marinating towards the next big fight. So even if PBC fails the next guy will learn from their errors & the next entity who attempts an elite boxing league will be able to make a better attempt & perhaps even succeed.

[aldo5408]

It's not just whether they win or lose this lawsuit to recoup their money it's the fact that this is further proof of how badly PBC is doing right now. They are CLEARLY losing far more money then they intended or are leading on. You don't file charges like this unless the company you gave money to is hemorrhaging funds which I been saying since last fall.

It was was apparent last Oct when you saw a massive shift in fights that were on PBC prior now flooding back to Showtime. When you saw the amount of PBC shows dwindling. When Thurman/Porter is leaked as a done deal back in Fall and then keeps getting pushed back month after month then gets sent to Showtime out the blue the day they officially announce it. Look at the PBC purses which have fallen off big time. Look at Feb/March where PBC all but suspended their business airing basically no cards for TWO WHOLE months. Look at the 8 month gap with no ESPN cards after they launched saying it would be a monthly series with these networks. 8 months gap on ESPN, 4 months gap with no cards on NBC/SPIKE ect.

You are seeing the ripple effect of a company that grossly lost money last year and now is trying to stay a float by slashing purses, canceling fight dates on networks, and headlining cards with Haymon's B and C class fighters instead of the more expensive A class fighters who headlined last year, ie desperation acts for a company that has money problems. And none of this has helped the ratings. The last NBC card

per ESPN
Saturday’s Premier Boxing Champions card on NBC in prime time, headlined by welterweight Errol Spence Jr.’s impressive fifth-round knockout of Chris Algieri, averaged 1.3 million viewers, by far the lowest of the six prime time cards on the network since it debuted in March 2015 to an average audience of 3.74 million. Each of the six cards has drawn fewer viewers than the previous one with Saturday’s dropping 500,000 viewers from the previous low of 1.8 million drawn by the card headlined by Omar Figueroa-Antonio DeMarco on Dec. 12. According to Nielsen, Saturday’s card, which went head-to-head with UFC Fight Night on Fox (2.5 million average), ranked 103rd out of 116 programs rated last week.

The writing is on the wall the end is near.

And he ruined Friday night fights at espn

[HeroBando]

You're gonna make yourself miserable bro talking about stuff you don't like all the time.

Everyone knew from the start that PBC was a high risk proposition. Everyone. Haymon, the boxers, Waddell, the investors (even if they mad now cuz they lost money as are all investors when they lose money), HBO, Showtime, the fans, the f#cking Watson twins knew. If it fails it fails.

They certainly made some mistakes that have been costly that can be looked at in the future as a learning experience or one of the reasons for their downfall regardless if they succeed or fail. The painful thing for you is that even if PBC fails, the influence Haymon has on the sport won't be THAT unchanged. He'll still have 200+ boxers. He'll likely still have some of these promoter affiliations. Maybe he'll make a more serious effort to bring them "in" as thats been one of the major failures of PBC. He'll still have his relationship with Showtime. He could even parlay his many fighters into a new relationship with HBO that seems to be in the healing process already.

Personally regardless if PBC wins or loses I'm rooting for this powerful promoter era ending as its been one of the worst eras in boxing history with a focus on making boxing smaller & smaller with less & less freedoms for boxers. I'm rooting for more Haymon's coming into the sport with more money & more influence & creating a PBC II if this PBC fails. I mean the future of boxing is gonna get dimmer & dimmer until there is some elite boxing league that can have its full power behind supporting boxing 24/7/365 & not just marinating towards the next big fight. So even if PBC fails the next guy will learn from their errors & the next entity who attempts an elite boxing league will be able to make a better attempt & perhaps even succeed.

I doubt there's gonna be a Pbc 2 in our lifetimes, after this epic disaster. These guys frittered away 20yrs+ of HBO budget in under 2 years, with nothing to show for but lawsuits

[BlakBread904]

You're gonna make yourself miserable bro talking about stuff you don't like all the time.

Everyone knew from the start that PBC was a high risk proposition. Everyone. Haymon, the boxers, Waddell, the investors (even if they mad now cuz they lost money as are all investors when they lose money), HBO, Showtime, the fans, the f#cking Watson twins knew. If it fails it fails.

They certainly made some mistakes that have been costly that can be looked at in the future as a learning experience or one of the reasons for their downfall regardless if they succeed or fail. The painful thing for you is that even if PBC fails, the influence Haymon has on the sport won't be THAT unchanged. He'll still have 200+ boxers. He'll likely still have some of these promoter affiliations. Maybe he'll make a more serious effort to bring them "in" as thats been one of the major failures of PBC. He'll still have his relationship with Showtime. He could even parlay his many fighters into a new relationship with HBO that seems to be in the healing process already.

Personally regardless if PBC wins or loses I'm rooting for this powerful promoter era ending as its been one of the worst eras in boxing history with a focus on making boxing smaller & smaller with less & less freedoms for boxers. I'm rooting for more Haymon's coming into the sport with more money & more influence & creating a PBC II if this PBC fails. I mean the future of boxing is gonna get dimmer & dimmer until there is some elite boxing league that can have its full power behind supporting boxing 24/7/365 & not just marinating towards the next big fight. So even if PBC fails the next guy will learn from their errors & the next entity who attempts an elite boxing league will be able to make a better attempt & perhaps even succeed.

I don't think that boxing's future depends on shifting to a UFC-like format (surely models like that of NBA/NFL/MLB wont work). if there were more competitive matches on network tv, that would help for one thing. as the resident hardcore boxing fan in the office, I've heard numerous gripes from casual channel flippers regarding boring fights.

[Sweet Jones]

Waddell & Reed got lucky, as did boxing fans. If it were not for their financial downturn, Haymon's dastardly plan could've succeeded, it would have been mismatches & pseudo protection-agency for the next 5 years and Waddell would've blown a lot more money.

Great point. Thank goodness Haymon was 'stopped'. We really dodged a bullet there.

Now, let's go on with the business of the HBO/Top Rank cabal trying to force the next Zou Shiming down our throats or wanting to charge us boxing fans 40+ bucks for Crawford/Postol level matchups.

The 'good ole days' sure are back again, aren't they?

[GMAN SUPREME]

LOL how will gaymon pay for his ********?

[Weebler I]

Great point. Thank goodness Haymon was 'stopped'. We really dodged a bullet there.

Now, let's go on with the business of the HBO/Top Rank cabal trying to force the next Zou Shiming down our throats or wanting to charge us boxing fans 40+ bucks for Crawford/Postol level matchups.

The 'good ole days' sure are back again, aren't they?

Those days were not perfect but they were a lot better than the last year or two that's for sure. So much investor money blown on fights nobody wanted to see.

I don't really care about networks, Showtime seem to have the better line-up over the next couple of months but HBO should not be seen as just Top Rank, they have Golden Boy, K2, Main Events and Banner amongst others.

[bigdunny1]

You're gonna make yourself miserable bro talking about stuff you don't like all the time.

Everyone knew from the start that PBC was a high risk proposition. Everyone. Haymon, the boxers, Waddell, the investors (even if they mad now cuz they lost money as are all investors when they lose money), HBO, Showtime, the fans, the f#cking Watson twins knew. If it fails it fails.

They certainly made some mistakes that have been costly that can be looked at in the future as a learning experience or one of the reasons for their downfall regardless if they succeed or fail. The painful thing for you is that even if PBC fails, the influence Haymon has on the sport won't be THAT unchanged. He'll still have 200+ boxers. He'll likely still have some of these promoter affiliations. Maybe he'll make a more serious effort to bring them "in" as thats been one of the major failures of PBC. He'll still have his relationship with Showtime. He could even parlay his many fighters into a new relationship with HBO that seems to be in the healing process already.

Personally regardless if PBC wins or loses I'm rooting for this powerful promoter era ending as its been one of the worst eras in boxing history with a focus on making boxing smaller & smaller with less & less freedoms for boxers. I'm rooting for more Haymon's coming into the sport with more money & more influence & creating a PBC II if this PBC fails. I mean the future of boxing is gonna get dimmer & dimmer until there is some elite boxing league that can have its full power behind supporting boxing 24/7/365 & not just marinating towards the next big fight. So even if PBC fails the next guy will learn from their errors & the next entity who attempts an elite boxing league will be able to make a better attempt & perhaps even succeed.

Why would I be upset one bit? I'm on a message board talking sports usually to kill time while working. None of this effects my daily life this is purely entertainment for me. LMAO That's number 1. Number 2 Boxing was around BEFORE Haymon and will exist whether Haymon is involved or whether PBC fails. The idea that Boxing needs Haymon to survive is foolish. Boxing is bigger then Haymon or any one man and will exist long after Haymon is done with boxing. Number 3 I don't believe for a moment Haymon walks away from this unscathed. Again he has two separate MASSIVE hundred million dollar lawsuits at him not Waddell because of PBC both of which have gone to the discovery phase 6 months or more AFTER Haymon fans said they would be tossed out of court. He may be on the cusp of facing serious settlements as well as the govt getting involved in his shady "advisor" role which may be illegal per the Ali Act. Number 4 even if he's not implicated in these lawsuits hitting Waddell and even if he evades the 2 lawsuits the ripple effect of PBC crashing and burning will have major impact on his power in Boxing.

For example the way he crippled Showtime Boxing when he took the fighters to PBC and with PBC failing he loses leverage with Showtime likely gets Espinoza fired and he no longer can say give me a blank check for fighter A to fight the bum of the week. Also per numerous sources he over extended him self to buy up fighter contracts a year ago BECAUSE he needed to fill fight cards on PBC. If you notice he's not buying up prospects and free agents too much these days. A year ago all the top prospects were going to Haymon because he paid more. Now you see a huge shift with Golden Boy, Top Rank and other promoters grabbing those prospects not Haymon. No doubt he will have to release a significant amount of his fighters contracts because of costs and because he will not be able to get many of them fights with PBC out the picture. No telling all the shifts in boxing if/when PBC folds. But to say Haymon just walks away with the same power he had in boxing prior is foolish. Before PBC he had Mayweather, a pipe line in Golden Boy to steal some of the best fighters, and leverage to extort huge purses from Showtime. Now Floyd is retired, Schaefer is gone and all Golden Boy fighters have no ties to Haymon, and now he needs Showtime more then they need him.