Waddell investment down to the last 82M? OUT of (521M)

[El-blanco]

Bankruptcy? Ahahahahaha you cant be that ****** can you?

Well... maybe you can, this IS a boxing forum lol

Lol you're ******ed. The next step after consistently losing money in business is bankruptcy. They're not bankrupt but they are consistently losing money. So, that's as bad as it gets. Understand now troll?

[PKing]

You think that's the only loses PBC has taken since last year? Don't be foolish there is millions being lost in areas not mentioned in this article. That's just a breaking down the per fight operating costs we know about and revenues from them. Which debunks some of the garbage people shoveling around here. The ads they generate that idiots said is great money because they are live Sports and people are paying out the nose for that are shockingly bad.

Television advertising tracking firm Kantar Media said Premier collected $12.5 million in total ad revenue from 27 fight telecasts from March through September, an average of $462,963 per show.

Also the Live Gate numbers which PROVE PBC is just giving these tickets away for free. Last fight with Garcia did a phony attendance number of 12,052. Despite the numerous reports that PBC couldn't sell them and were giving them away. Steve Kim reported a source told him they actually only sold 3000 tickets gave all the rest away. Fan boys said those numbers were a lie and quoted the attendance numbers. PBC never releases the live gate amounts so it's great to see the real numbers

A look at 10 major and minor Premier boxing shows staged in California and Nevada last year reveals that promoters paid $19.2 million in purses and state fees for those fight cards, while collecting only $3.9 million from fans at the gate, according to the states' records.

For last month's Garcia-Guerrero fight in Los Angeles, the fight card's purse totaled $3.2 million, versus only $508,620 in live-gate ticket sales.

Since idiots try to compare this mess to UFC here are the last attendance AND LIVE gates for UFC which DOES release that info because they ACTUALLY sell seats not give them away. The ticket ranges for PBC fights have been virtually identical to the prices UFC charged for FOX fights.

“UFC on FOX 15: Machida vs. Rockhold” – 13,306 ($1,200,000 gate)
“UFC on FOX 18: Johnson vs. Bader” – 10,555 ($818,000 gate)

http://mmajunkie.com/2016/01/ufc-on-...818k-live-gate

So how you have a higher attendance yet made almost half as much as UFC for the same ticket prices? Seems like Steve Kim was right they only actually sold probably 3000-5000 tickets MAX. And this was one of the best attendance they got all year. There were fights like Thurmans last that had an official attendance number of 4k with the amount of free tickets they been giving away would be shocked if even 2K actually paid and that was his fight AFTER fighting on NBC in his home town no less.

Who cares. As long as Spike & Showtime continue paying PBC is in great shape. Its only a matter of time before CBS, FOX, & Bounce come on board as well.

NBC & ESPN will be tougher.

[HanzGruber]

elblanco in a new argument?

[PKing]

Lol you're ******ed. The next step after consistently losing money in business is bankruptcy. They're not bankrupt but they are consistently losing money. So, that's as bad as it gets. Understand now troll?

You're obviously rather simple minded. If PBC loses $50 million a year but has the potential to raise an additional $400 million, that'd mean they would go bankrupt in 2024.

By then Top Rank, Golden Boy are out of business and HBO only buys PBC fights so they would own the entire industry and could pay whatever they feel like.

[bigdunny1]

Who cares. As long as Spike & Showtime continue paying PBC is in great shape. Its only a matter of time before CBS, FOX, & Bounce come on board as well.

NBC & ESPN will be tougher.

If it didn't matter then WHY ARE future PBC shows at an alltime low and why did PBC send Thurman vs Porter to Showtime? It can't possibly be ok or they are in great shape when financial reports like this come out yesterday from his investors

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...e57890703.html

Chief executive Hank Herrmann said the company has struggled with customer withdrawals and a volatile stock market. He also promised cost cutting to help boost earnings.

“In addition to market challenges, we have had to manage increased redemption pressure and weaker sales in some of our key strategies due in part to under performance in these funds. In light of lower levels of assets under management, we are evaluating operating expenses to align our cost structure with revenues,” Herrmann said in the announcement.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...#storylink=cpy

Seems like the check book is getting tight losses are mounting and based on the latest report showing how much they are losing per event just in simple operating costs breakdown we see now why PBC has less shows and more going to showtime. They can't afford them despite already paying millions up front for the air time. I guess wasting millions on air time you won't or can't use sounds fine to me too.

[buddyguns]

Hello. I am "that kid." I'm also a lawyer who works in the financial industry. It takes about 5 minutes to look up this information and another 5 to write the Reddit post, so I don't actually spend much time on it. I've spent way more time analyzing the court filings in Haymon's various lawsuits and 50 Cent's bankruptcy proceedings. I do it because I'm a huge boxing fan and feel like I can add value to the Reddit boxing community by contributing my legal and financial knowledge when it intersects with my favorite sport. It's nerdy, but I am a nerd.

Anyway, you can look up this information yourself. I would post links to my sources, but apparently I am not allowed to do that until I have made 15 posts on this forum. Links to my sources are included in my most recent Reddit post via the citation to my post about the Q3 results. Perhaps someone else can copy and paste them here. The first three links will take you to the current portfolio holdings of the Ivy Asset Strategy Fund, Ivy VIP Asset Strategy Fund, and WRA Asset Strategy Fund. Waddell's Haymon investment vehicle is Media Group Holdings, Series H, as revealed by Sports Business Journal and later confirmed by Haymon's lawyers in court filings. The last two links will take you to the most recent prospectuses for the Ivy Funds and WRA Funds, which disclose the acquisition values of Media Group Holdings, Series H for each fund. Then you just do the math.

Thank you much, for all of your nerdiness!

[PKing]

If it didn't matter then WHY ARE future PBC shows at an alltime low and why did PBC send Thurman vs Porter to Showtime? It can't possibly be ok or they are in great shape when financial reports like this come out yesterday from his investors

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...e57890703.html

Chief executive Hank Herrmann said the company has struggled with customer withdrawals and a volatile stock market. He also promised cost cutting to help boost earnings.

“In addition to market challenges, we have had to manage increased redemption pressure and weaker sales in some of our key strategies due in part to under performance in these funds. In light of lower levels of assets under management, we are evaluating operating expenses to align our cost structure with revenues,” Herrmann said in the announcement.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...#storylink=cpy

Seems like the check book is getting tight losses are mounting and based on the latest report showing how much they are losing per event just in simple operating costs breakdown we see now why PBC has less shows and more going to showtime. They can't afford them despite already paying millions up front for the air time. I guess wasting millions on air time you won't or can't use sounds fine to me too.

Showtime has ALWAYS been on board with Haymon's plan so this is hardly an act of "desparation" LOL.

By 2018 Haymon will own Showtime, CBS, Bounce, Spike, and potentially FOX/FS1.

That's pretty damn good by ANY promotional standards.

[bigdunny1]

Showtime has ALWAYS been on board with Haymon's plan so this is hardly an act of "desparation" LOL.

By 2018 Haymon will own Showtime, CBS, Bounce, Spike, and potentially FOX/FS1.

That's pretty damn good by ANY promotional standards.

He already had a business relationship with Showtime. Why blow millions to try and create PBC if he's just going to sell Showtime his fights? That's what he was doing in 2014 and earlier. Haymon is fine PBC is what we are talking about. If it wasn't a move out of desperation then why have we not heard of Showtime's involvement in Thurman vs Porter until just last week on the day the official announcement came out? Prior all we heard for months is it would be a PBC fight. Seems desperate to me because I don't see the logic in buying CBS buy time for the sole purpose of airing your new Brand PBC on it and then saying nah no need I'll go back to the old format and just sell this fight and let Showtime reap the benefits ON MY OWN BUY TIME. 2018? Didn't reports come out yesterday that PBC is trying to beg it's investors to double down the money in hopes that if they lower their costs they can turn this thing around. Why do that if they are just fine? I thought they had enough money to last them 2 years to operate at a loss with these buy times before they ran out of money? Yet they appear to be running out of money and a year earlier and asking for more money now and can't afford to fill out cards for the time buys they already paid for. You better worry about 2016 and not 2018.

[PKing]

He already had a business relationship with Showtime. Why blow millions to try and create PBC if he's just going to sell Showtime his fights? That's what he was doing in 2014 and earlier. Haymon is fine PBC is what we are talking about. If it wasn't a move out of desperation then why have we not heard of Showtime's involvement in Thurman vs Porter until just last week on the day the official announcement came out? Prior all we heard for months is it would be a PBC fight. Seems desperate to me because I don't see the logic in buying CBS buy time for the sole purpose of airing your new Brand PBC on it and then saying nah no need I'll go back to the old format and just sell this fight and let Showtime reap the benefits ON MY OWN BUY TIME. 2018? Didn't reports come out yesterday that PBC is trying to beg it's investors to double down the money in hopes that if they lower their costs they can turn this thing around. Why do that if they are just fine? I thought they had enough money to last them 2 years to operate at a loss with these buy times before they ran out of money? Yet they appear to be running out of money and a year earlier and asking for more money now and can't afford to fill out cards for the time buys they already paid for. You better worry about 2016 and not 2018.

CBS & Showtime = same corporation big dummy lol

Like I said, this game is being owned slowly but SURELY by Haymon. Showtime, CBS, Spike, Bounce are locks.

The rest will be on by 2018 and they have $300 million in the bank to float them until then.

[bigdunny1]

CBS & Showtime = same corporation big dummy lol

Like I said, this game is being owned slowly but SURELY by Haymon. Showtime, CBS, Spike, Bounce are locks.

The rest will be on by 2018 and they have $300 million in the bank to float them until then.

He bought air time on CBS last year only so he could turn around and sell the fight to Showtime to air his fight on CBS? THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF WASTING MILLIONS ON CREATING PBC AND BUYING AIR TIME FOR PBC JUST TO NOT USE IT AND SELL THE TO SHOWTIME? And how does that help PBC?