PBC/Haymon Elite Boxers Influence at the end of 2015

[LoadedWraps]

Haymon is not ****** he knows how to run his business, he has built himself a very successful Concert Promotion in which he sold half if that to Live Nation for A LOT of money.

Same will likely happen to PBC, I think he will build it up slowly and the hope is to get a Major Multi Network TV Deal package. I know fans are b1tching about match ups but why would anybody spend their own Money for TV Time and also give these Networks your best match ups all for free on your dime? Screw that, again that is proof that Haymon is smart, if you really want the best match ups on your network then you will have to invest. So the best match ups will go to Showtime for now because Showtime is likely putting up money for those fights and those other networks are not invest in PBC Yet.

[al-Xander]

Haymon will soon run out of cab drivers for his top fighters. So they'll have no choice but to fight tough fighters. It will happen doe, don't worry. They have no choice.

Danny Garcia is lucky. It's still a long list for him...There's Karass/Kamegai winner, there's Collazo, Judah rematch, Lopez, Bundu...

[killakali]

Fair enough & thanks for the heads up. Updated my info after researching the Badou Jack info more as to not being signed with Haymon. Its seems to be harder to find older boxers info about who's with Haymon & some of the other stuff out there had seemed to indicate that Jack was with Haymon. Now it seems like every few weeks there is a story about a new signing or two with Haymon so its easier to collect info when its clearly defined & a press release basically.



Oh man...soooo this. People who talk about PBC negatively don't really look at things from a complete angle usually. They got hangups about this thing or that thing & PBC is the devil because of that particular hangup they have about whatever.

This thing is much more complicated than you think if you think its dead in the water cuz the TV ratings in November of 2015 for FoxSports 1 weren't that great or they aren't making Thurman vs Porter fast enough or that they are throwing some fights on Showtime still & could be throwing fighters or fights on HBO potentially in the future or that a certain fighter loses. This is a bigger concept than all that & won't die or fail for any of those reasons.

Personally I believe PBC lives or dies on two things right now. Or at least arguably does with the first one.

I think the most pending issue is the TR & GBP lawsuits. I think $300M worth of lawsuits being lost could have a dramatic effect on PBC's progress. And not even $-wise cuz Haymon is a resourceful guy. If Haymon is deemed to be doing something illegal via the MAA that could in theory end PBC right in its tracks. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe there is still a way to operate after losing one or both of these lawsuits & needing to reconfigure how it all works, but that remains to be seen & its a big L if Haymon does lose them.

Having said that I think the reality of how the US court system works is that by the time this gets resolved Haymon could already be in the end game of his takeover attempt or have things heavily stacked in his favor. Thus it could be less impactful if it gets decided in 2018 or whatever & maybe if Haymon is doing something in violation of the MAA that he's acknowledged internally & corrected already in 2015 or 2016, so its no longer an issue, Haymon can just fork out $300M & be cool.

The 2nd thing I think thats important with PBC succeeding or failing is exactly what this thread is about. I think Haymon adding more & more elite level fighters to his roster over the next several years is what ultimately wins or loses the day for PBC. If 5 years from now Haymon still has about 29% of the elite level fighters under the PBC umbrella I think he's created a successful bigger TR/GBP promotion-like entity in the business, but it will fall short of being an NBA, NFL or UFC type boxing league of elite fighters as I believe the end goal to be.

I doubt the networks care once the money runs out they will just go back to programming like before unless the ratings dramatically improve. They can put on reality shows for a 1/10 of the cost of one of Al's big fights for about the same ratings. For the networks its all about profits and losses. They could give a shiet less if its a big fight or not

[Eff Pandas]

I doubt the networks care once the money runs out they will just go back to programming like before unless the ratings dramatically improve. They can put on reality shows for a 1/10 of the cost of one of Al's big fights for about the same ratings. For the networks its all about profits and losses. They could give a shiet less if its a big fight or not

Oh my jezzzzzuuuuussss with the reality show stuff. So why aren't reality shows the only thing on then? Why doesn't HBO just cancel everything & become a 24/7 reality show network?

And the bottom line with making this sorta statement is you are saying boxing isn't a sport that has much money in it. Or that boxing is incapable of increasing its hardcore base if it can create a elite league of boxers. I think both those things are wrong. In particular the first one. When boxing puts on its top fights there is a ton of money involved. And there is also interest by more casual fans.

The problem is boxing is a mess. With promoters, rankings groups & networks preventing some of its best fights. If all or most of the top boxers where all under the same umbrella boxing would be bigger than it currently is cuz there would be less confusion & more big fights could happen.

If you don't think Haymon/PBC can attain the goal of creating a elite fighter league fair enough. I got my own doubts of it happening cuz its no easy task, but to suggest boxing doesn't become bigger & more mainstream & sellable to the masses if it did occur is naive & just standard glass half empty boxing fan thinking.

[285Kid]

He need to have his fighters at 147 & 154 fight each other in 2016

[about.thousands]

Oh my jezzzzzuuuuussss with the reality show stuff. So why aren't reality shows the only thing on then? Why doesn't HBO just cancel everything & become a 24/7 reality show network?

And the bottom line with making this sorta statement is you are saying boxing isn't a sport that has much money in it. Or that boxing is incapable of increasing its hardcore base if it can create a elite league of boxers. I think both those things are wrong. In particular the first one. When boxing puts on its top fights there is a ton of money involved. And there is also interest by more casual fans.

The problem is boxing is a mess. With promoters, rankings groups & networks preventing some of its best fights. If all or most of the top boxers where all under the same umbrella boxing would be bigger than it currently is cuz there would be less confusion & more big fights could happen.

If you don't think Haymon/PBC can attain the goal of creating a elite fighter league fair enough. I got my own doubts of it happening cuz its no easy task, but to suggest boxing doesn't become bigger & more mainstream & sellable to the masses if it did occur is naive & just standard glass half empty boxing fan thinking.

He usually has ****ty time slots. Networks don't put their best shows on Saturday nights or Saturday afternoon. If he can stay around the 1.5-2.5 mil mark for broadcast and around 300k-600K on cable, a network will buy it for the right price. Broadcast and cable networks are looking to cut costs. Especially cable networks because of cord cutting. ESPN is paying a billion a year just for Monday Night Football!

MLS signed a $720 million 8 year contract with Fox Sports I, ESPN, and Univision. Fox Sports I paid $30 mil a year. ESPN paid $45 mil a year and Univision paid $15 mil a year.

MLS avg ratings:
ESPN: 249K
FS1: 190K
Univision: 224K

PBC numbers have been better than that. The bar for success isn't as high as most think

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...Univision.html

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/...re-in-for-2015

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/10/2...on-of-tv-deal/

[HanzGruber]

He doesnt have any 1 standout star boxer yet and how you have Lucas Matthysse on their as a potential haymon whatever lol he left haymon cause haymon wouldent give him the fights he wanted.

he gave him garcia.. and peterson lol

[killakali]

Oh my jezzzzzuuuuussss with the reality show stuff. So why aren't reality shows the only thing on then? Why doesn't HBO just cancel everything & become a 24/7 reality show network?

And the bottom line with making this sorta statement is you are saying boxing isn't a sport that has much money in it. Or that boxing is incapable of increasing its hardcore base if it can create a elite league of boxers. I think both those things are wrong. In particular the first one. When boxing puts on its top fights there is a ton of money involved. And there is also interest by more casual fans.

The problem is boxing is a mess. With promoters, rankings groups & networks preventing some of its best fights. If all or most of the top boxers where all under the same umbrella boxing would be bigger than it currently is cuz there would be less confusion & more big fights could happen.

If you don't think Haymon/PBC can attain the goal of creating a elite fighter league fair enough. I got my own doubts of it happening cuz its no easy task, but to suggest boxing doesn't become bigger & more mainstream & sellable to the masses if it did occur is naive & just standard glass half empty boxing fan thinking.

u seem to have selectively read my post. I said with the ratings that PBC is producing. That is equivalent to reality shows on major networks but reality shows cost a 1/10. Now there are shows like 60 minutes, national news, csi etc that produce huge ratings but at bigger costs but the ratings bring the advertising dollars and justify the costs.

There is a reason that PBC has to pay to be in network tv and cable tv. NBC or any network could have bought the upcoming Kovalev pascal rematch yet none bid on it because they won't pay nearly enough of the purses they command.

When the hedge fund $ runs out this will be a major problem. U can point to the UFC on fox but these guys aren't knocking down purses anywhere near what PBC fighters are getting.

[Eff Pandas]

He usually has ****ty time slots. Networks don't put their best shows on Saturday nights or Saturday afternoon. If he can stay around the 1.5-2.5 mil mark for broadcast and around 300k-600K on cable, a network will buy it for the right price. Broadcast and cable networks are looking to cut costs. Especially cable networks because of cord cutting. ESPN is paying a billion a year just for Monday Night Football!

MLS signed a $720 million 8 year contract with Fox Sports I, ESPN, and Univision. Fox Sports I paid $30 mil a year. ESPN paid $45 mil a year and Univision paid $15 mil a year.

MLS avg ratings:
ESPN: 249K
FS1: 190K
Univision: 224K

PBC numbers have been better than that. The bar for success isn't as high as most think

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...Univision.html

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/...re-in-for-2015

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/10/2...on-of-tv-deal/

Yea I gotta agree the ratings bar is lower then people, myself included, realize with this.

There is a reason that PBC has to pay to be in network tv and cable tv. NBC or any network could have bought the upcoming Kovalev pascal rematch yet none bid on it because they won't pay nearly enough of the purses they command.

When the hedge fund $ runs out this will be a major problem. U can point to the UFC on fox but these guys aren't knocking down purses anywhere near what PBC fighters are getting.

Okay so you don't think an elite boxing league would generate the money needed to be profitable? Lets say an elite boxing league by definition would be a list similar to the one above where Haymon currently has 24% of elite boxers signed to deals with him & 29% of them operating under the PBC banner & with a favored Haymon promoter except maybe this in theory elite boxing league has 50%-60% of elite boxers signed to deals with them &/or 65%-75% of them are fighting under the that groups banner.

You don't think a league of fighters of that caliber all with the ability to fight each other at any time would be a profitable venture? And lets not even get into a conversation about if that is or isn't attainable, cuz its not relevant to the question at hand. If you'd have told me 3 years that one guy would have 24% of the elite boxers in the sport signed to him I'd have called you nuts.

Cuz this is the end goal not the stuff you are focused on now that you & others see as a huge leak in the plan. The plan was gonna involve this ship taking water for awhile whatever happened. And I think nearly everyone is in agreement Haymon is spending some money now. How much he's spending vs taking in is debatable, but I'll leave that question for another day cuz I believe we don't have enough info to make an informed call. I doubt its as bad as people think based on what we know & the numbers we've seen with little clarification with the fund war chest report. I do suspect it will probably be more defined within the next two quarterly updates & then we can talk more seriously about the burn rate going on.

[The Gambler1981]

He usually has ****ty time slots. Networks don't put their best shows on Saturday nights or Saturday afternoon. If he can stay around the 1.5-2.5 mil mark for broadcast and around 300k-600K on cable, a network will buy it for the right price. Broadcast and cable networks are looking to cut costs. Especially cable networks because of cord cutting. ESPN is paying a billion a year just for Monday Night Football!

MLS signed a $720 million 8 year contract with Fox Sports I, ESPN, and Univision. Fox Sports I paid $30 mil a year. ESPN paid $45 mil a year and Univision paid $15 mil a year.

MLS avg ratings:
ESPN: 249K
FS1: 190K
Univision: 224K

PBC numbers have been better than that. The bar for success isn't as high as most think

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...Univision.html

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/...re-in-for-2015

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/10/2...on-of-tv-deal/

MLS is a good example because that is a league that essentially started from scratch and took 20 years to be a success, and those numbers are caled a success. They have lost a ****ton of money but 1 dude essentially thought it could work and basically owned 70% of the teams at one point but that dude has been able to sell them all off and is perfectly happy with the results.

Live sports have a certain ability to make people watch live, and give networks certain calling cards. Someone is going to pay for PBC, it is not a matter of if it is a matter of how much money they pull down.