Comments Thread For: Richard Schaefer is "Getting The Itch" To Come Back

[bigdunny1]

I'd take that bet. ESPN & other networks pay for **** with lower rankings already.

It's not JUST that it gets low tv ratings. It get's low TV ratings despite it being a expensive product. That's the issue. Of course there are many cheap products that don't take much money to produce that have similar TV ratings. Problem is those products operate at a infinitely lower cost then PBC so they can still be profitable. Perfect example is PBC on FoxSports1. Prior to PBC FoxSports1 aired boxing with Golden Boy. It was profitable they had no problems with Golden Boy they simply did not renew because Haymon came with a boat load of money for a time buy deal. Meaning instead of FoxSports1 paying Golden Boy for the rights PBC is paying millions to FoxSports1 and in addition handling all the fighter purses and fight costs. Golden Boy fights were for low end fighters and journey men and filled with raw prospects many of which were making their pro debuts. They were getting a small budget from FoxSports1 something like 15-50K a card for their fighters purses. Very similar to what ESPN Fight Nights operated with. So you are not expecting huge ratings nor do you need huge ratings or big TV advertisement because the cost is so low. PBC on FoxSports1 purses are like 10X then previous Golden Boy cards. Matter of fact they paid Austin Trout more money alone for a one sided mismatch on FoxSports1 then all the fight purses combined in a year on Golden Boy cards. But what **** for their buck did they get in the TV Ratings? NONE. PBC on FoxSports1 gets the EXACT same ratings that Golden Boy did with a smaller fight and promotion budget. That's a terrible business model that can't sustain itself so when the time buy deal ends or Haymon investors run out of money why on earth would FoxSports1 pay for PBC? Right now they don't care because PBC loses money but FoxSports1 already got paid. But once that dynamic switches and PBC wants a network to now pay these fighter purses despite the fact that it produces such low TV Ratings and they lose millions on each fight?

The first half of the year Haymon took all his blue chip fighters OFF Showtime and had them fighting on PBC. The TV ratings were bad and getting worse they are losing millions each card and now all a sudden the second half of the year all his blue chip guys are NO LONGER fighting on PBC. This is not a coincidence this is a domino effect. They are back on Showtime and the names of the fighters on these PBC cards are not his cream of the crop they are his B and C level fighters. Why? Because he's trying to lower his costs he knows the ratings aren't good so if the ratings aren't good why not put cheaper fighters on these cards to limit the amount of money he is burning through and just have Showtime pay for his high end fighters. Early in the year you had guys like Thurman, Broner, Garcia headlining these NBC cards. Now you got guys like Figueroa. On Spike you had guys like Khan headlining these fights now you got guys like Barthelemy. Why isn't Jacobs vs Quillen on NBC or anyone of these other PBC networks? Because the fight is too expensive so they need Showtime to pay for it instead they would be paying out of pocket for that fight and lose millions. Why is Thurman vs Porter not on PBC this winter despite the fact that everyone says the deal is ALREADY done? It's because PBC has lost too much money already this year. They will either wait till next year to air it on PBC or it will end up on Showtime. So Thurman and Porter are both not fighting again this year because PBC can't afford to lose any more money in 2015.

2 things need to happen for PBC either the TV Ratings need to drastically turn around to attract high end advertisement to pay for these expensive fighters or they need to change their business model and how much they pay their fighters. Either fighters going to start taking discounts or you will see PBC become an outlet strictly for 2nd and 3rd tier fighters. Otherwise they will just blow through their investors money in no time and when the time buy is over no network is going to buy PBC because it's a money losing product.

[Eff Pandas]

I think Shaeffer prefers an hbo position. In a recent interview he was just glowing about HBO boxing.

The HBO position would be epic for Schaefer, but I'd be shocked if he got it. The more I think about it the more I could see him interviewing for it cuz he is a highly considered guy in the boxing business & maybe thats why he hasn't taken a position with PBC, but I can't see it happening. If it does I think its huge for PBC & not great news for GBP & Arum (think Arum & Schaefer are mortal enemies) at all.

Otherwise they will just blow through their investors money in no time and when the time buy is over no network is going to buy PBC because it's a money losing product.

I think there is a bigger picture going on here first off, but the reality is the NHL & UFC have similar-ish ratings as PBC has on some of their networks & are getting $90M+ a year. Obviously some of the channels don't even got $90M to give for boxing, but I'm sure there are deals that could be put together across many networks for varying viable amounts & the caliber of fights for that amount.

With the traction PBC has gained in 8 months with everything minus the ratings if things keep building (more top fighters, more affiliated promoters) if PBC fails it'll be a failure of the sport as much of a PBC failure.

The biggest hole in all this talk is what exactly PBC is attempting is unknown. I think they've done many things already that people in the boxing business have never done or things thought impossible by fans if you'd have asked two years ago & guessing their next move is gonna be hard to do.

[New England]

oscar got the itch quite a few times in the 90's. little creepy crawly bugs crawlin all through his pubes. they got a powder for that, iirc.


do people even get crabs any more? it seems like it's a retro STD. the clap is still going strong. trust.

[bigdunny1]

The HBO position would be epic for Schaefer, but I'd be shocked if he got it. The more I think about it the more I could see him interviewing for it cuz he is a highly considered guy in the boxing business & maybe thats why he hasn't taken a position with PBC, but I can't see it happening. If it does I think its huge for PBC & not great news for GBP & Arum (think Arum & Schaefer are mortal enemies) at all.



I think there is a bigger picture going on here first off, but the reality is the NHL & UFC have similar-ish ratings as PBC has on some of their networks & are getting $90M+ a year. Obviously some of the channels don't even got $90M to give for boxing, but I'm sure there are deals that could be put together across many networks for varying viable amounts & the caliber of fights for that amount.

With the traction PBC has gained in 8 months with everything minus the ratings if things keep building (more top fighters, more affiliated promoters) if PBC fails it'll be a failure of the sport as much of a PBC failure.

The biggest hole in all this talk is what exactly PBC is attempting is unknown. I think they've done many things already that people in the boxing business have never done or things thought impossible by fans if you'd have asked two years ago & guessing their next move is gonna be hard to do.

Again you can't just compare ratings and ignore the cost of the product. UFC fighters don't make anywhere near the money Boxers on PBC do. For example you could pay all the fighters on a NON PPV UFC card with just 1/4th the price PBC has been paying for the headline fighter in his cards. Also UFC got massive ratings BEFORE they signed their deal with Fox. They needed those high ratings to get that FOX deal. PBC hasn't signed a deal and their ratings already stink and it costs them far more money each card then UFC does.

As for PBC has done everything in the last 8 months minus generate ratings. Well that's the point that's the biggest thing they needed to do and show networks. That's all networks really care about. That's like saying I had a great date we went to eat we went dancing afterwards everything was great minus the fact that she left the club with another man lol

And you keep saying if things keep building. The ratings AREN'T building they aren't adding new fans it's actually the opposite. The ratings have consistently gone down so it's not like they are building the brand causal fans either don't know about PBC or they don't care. Hardcore fans couldn't be more split. In the short amount of time PBC has been very polarizing there is a lot of negativity around PBC which is why promoters like Lou Dibella look like they are going to explode when he is just promoting a non PBC card and is dragged into questions and criticism fans and media have about Haymon and PBC. See how nuts he went during the promotion of Jacobs vs Quilen and that was a Showtime fight not PBC.

PBC in my view has proven little except that they can spend and burn unheard of amounts of cash in a short time. Look at fighters like Broner and Thruman. Have either of them seen their popularity increase from fighting on PBC? Nope look at how bad Broner's TV Ratings were a few weeks ago when he returned back to Showtime look at how bad Thurman did his second PBC fight on ESPN. So PBC clearly is not building stars, it's not pulling in new fans, it's not making money or getting ratings, and it's not getting the respect from fans. It's just a super expensive infomercial. Once the money dries up I can't see a network spending money to buy PBC. Sure they will deal with PBC for as long as they pay them but once that's done why would any network pay for a expensive non money making product that gets weak TV ratings.

[Eff Pandas]

Again you can't just compare ratings and ignore the cost of the product. UFC fighters don't make anywhere near the money Boxers on PBC do.

I'm not ignoring the price. I think with $90M+ you can put on fights for a year.

As for PBC has done everything in the last 8 months minus generate ratings. Well that's the point that's the biggest thing they needed to do and show networks.

I disagree. If this is a takeover of boxing or attempt to bring forth a elite centralized power structure or basically a league as I believe it is its about more than ratings. If PBC has 80% of the top 100 boxers under the PBC banner by 2018 (they've had ~40% of the top 100 on PBC shows already in the first 8 months) they have a product worth a lot of money from someone. Maybe thats NBC, Maybe thats HBO or Showtime, maybe thats some streaming show or boxing channel or who the f#ck knows.

You are saying 2+2 doesn't equal 5, but the problem is this plan almost assuredly has some algebra & trigonometry involved & if you think you got everything covered on all the moves this PBC venture could take you are being naive. And granted the TV deal seems the obvious Plan A, but I guarantee you there is Plan G's in this PBC plan. This isn't just a race to getting 800k watching on FoxSports or 5M watching on NBC before this war chest goes empty.

which is why promoters like Lou Dibella look like they are going to explode when he is just promoting a non PBC card and is dragged into questions and criticism fans and media have about Haymon and PBC.

Lets be real about DiBella. He's never been the calmest guy. But if DiBella doesn't wanna do PBC fights I'm sure he can walk.

So PBC clearly is not building stars, it's not pulling in new fans, it's not making money or getting ratings, and it's not getting the respect from fans.

The star building critique PBC gets is silly & nonsensical to me. First off they've not been around long enough to "build stars" & 2nd & most importantly building stars is kinda bs anyway. Stars build themselves. Is Arum building Loma into a star fighting all these no name guys who's names I can't even pronounce twice a year? Is Crawford a star with the Jean W? Is GGG a star fighting the Willie Monroe's of the world & a champ everyone include his opponents mother was picking him to KO? Granted you do need a promoter capable of getting the fights needed, but the fighter has to win those fights &/or be entertaining enough while doing so to make themselves a star. Promoters can build manufactured records of okay to good fighters & I'd say thats really what Arum is great at & I see PBC (& PBC fighters) doing some of that themselves.

[Scipio2009]

There is always room for smart mfers. And Schaefer is a smart mfer.



I'd take that bet. ESPN & other networks pay for **** with lower rankings already.



The mark PBC has made is impressive in their first 8 months is unheard of.

A list of all the 24 current title holders (there are currently 70 boxers holding some form of a major title) who've fought on a PBC card or are currently signed to a adviser/manager deal with Haymon to show the extend of PBC's grasp already.

200+ - Deontay Wilder (WBC)
200 - Krzystof Glowaki (WBO)
175 - Adonis Stevenson (WBC)
168 - Badou Jack (WBC), James DeGale (IBF)
160 - Daniel Jacobs (WBA), Andy Lee (WBO)
154 - Erislandy Lara (WBA), Jermall Charlo (IBF)
147 - Keith Thurman (WBA)
140 - Viktor Postol (WBC), Adrien Broner (WBA)
135 - none
130 - Javier Fortuna (WBA), Jose Pedraza (IBF)
126 - Gary Russell (WBC), Leo Santa Cruz (WBA), Jesus Cuellar (WBA), Lee Selby (IBF)
122 - Julio Ceja (WBC), Carl Frampton (IBF)
118 - Juan Payano (WBA), Jamie McDonnell (WBA)
115 - Kohei Kono (WBA), McJoe Arroyo (IBF)
112 - none
108 - none
105 - none

+ I counted about 25 guys who are currently non-title holders, but ranked within the top 3 of an alphabet group who have fought on a PBC card or are Haymon signed fighters. The impact PBC has is only likely to grow.



I strongly disagree with this. I believe someone has already posted patent or trademark information for a PBC title belt that has been submitted by PBC. Whatever the case with that it just seems to me the eventual goal of PBC would led to a PBC champion.

One of the problems with boxing now is no one knows who the best guys really are. If you want boxing to be mainstream you need to find that best guy & label him the best guy with a title, there can't just be a consensus or debate on who that best guy is. Even college football has a system to find the best team each year these days. I think its about time boxing does the same.

Granted I don't see a PBC title popping up any day now or anything like that, but I don't see how its not a goal its just a matter of if its 2yrs, 5yrs or 10yrs down the line.

In a world that already has four recognized world titles, a fifth organization trying to shoe-horn their way into also getting recognition, and the Golden Boy's Ring Magazine still holding some acclaim, I just don't see the utility of pushing to add another set of belts at the moment.

The only position I see that making sense would be for undisputed champions (rather than carrying four/five belts into the ring, said fighter could simply carry the PBC belt, highlighting their distinction of being THE champion, while also moving off the different sanctioning body politics).

Klitschko-Wilder for the PBC heavyweight championship (WBC/WBA/IBF/WBA/Ring championships) would make a ton of sense, as would Stevenson-Kovalev for a PBC light heavyweight championship, and other such fights.

[Eff Pandas]

Granted I don't see a PBC title popping up any day now or anything like that, but I don't see how its not a goal its just a matter of if its 2yrs, 5yrs or 10yrs down the line.

I just don't see the utility of pushing to add another set of belts at the moment.

I don't either. Its long game **** as is most of PBC's plan still I feel.

The only position I see that making sense would be for undisputed champions (rather than carrying four/five belts into the ring, said fighter could simply carry the PBC belt, highlighting their distinction of being THE champion, while also moving off the different sanctioning body politics).

Thats basically what I suggested previously although idk that a guy would necessarily need to be undisputed, but that would probably be preferred. If/When PBC creates a title belt in 2, 5 or 10 years from now you don't just Bowe the titles the day after. You keep them around a lil while til the fans realize the PBC belts is the one that matters & the alphabet groups lose ground gradually over time.

If PBC has "The Champion" & the alphabet groups strips that guy as they tend to do & PBC gots the guy who wins the stripped belt they just throw that guy right back at "The Champion" or if its a non-PBC universe guy that gets the stripped belt he's left defending vs the 20%-30% of non-PBC fighters & that title/champion tends to be seen as lesser.

Its kinda like how HBO champions are considered better today. Whatever belt you got if you are defending it on HBO it seems just a lil better cuz you're on HBO more often than not. PBC could in theory do a similar thing just on a wider scale & with bigger intentions.