Where did the greatness get lost...?

[Turiaoei29]

Quite a few years I saw fighters who I felt had the potential to be great. Maybe even the potential to be among the greatest who ever laced them up. People who I thought might have ended up in the Hall of Fame when all was said and done.
Here are the names:

- Andre Ward: came into the supersix like a complete underdog and showed what he was capable of doing. Willing to fight anybody, superb skills.

- Mikey Garcia: dude had power, skills, pretty much everything.

- Brandon Rios: Yes people, I put him here because of his lightweight run. Not saying he was a worldbeater, I am talking about the lightweight version of him. I talk about his warrior spirit, his Carmen Basilio-esque "never-say-die" attitude and his infighting skills. I will explain below some more.

- Adrien Broner: yes, he is in there too. He may not have fought big names at 130 or 135 (Because there were no big names at those weights during that time), but he looked very promising, very skilled. And what happened to him later was the same that happened to Brandon Rios: they moved up in weight and they look like "above-average-fighters", meaning they looked pretty awesome at 130/135 and looked like gatekeepers once they moved up to welterweight. A weightclass they clearly do not belong in.

So - did Rios and Broner look that good at the smaller weightclass because they were fighting smaller guys and now that they are fighting people their own size - their true skills show up. Meaning a lot of their earlier dominance had to do with size advantage and not with pure skills. Or were they fighting people their own size back then and their skills were just so superior? And now they have such a big size disadvantage at 147 that their skills cannot shine through anymore?
Or is the truth somewhere in between those 2 theories?

- Andre Dirrell. When I saw him in the Super 6 tournament he looked like all skills, the full package, amazingly crafty.
Then some issues and a few years later he fights DeGale and you see 2 fighters on the same level. Back in the day I felt Dirrell is 2 classes above a fighter like DeGale (Even though DeGale is a good fighter himself).

It almost looks like the inactivity of Dirrell can be compared to the inactivity of Ali when he was suspended for his unwillingness to go to Vietnam. Ali was a different fighter when those 3 years were taken from him. Just tells us how small that time window for athletes is.

I do know though that contractual issues had something to do with the inactivity of some of the above mentioned fighters.

[Bozbay]

Quite a few years I saw fighters who I felt had the potential to be great. Maybe even the potential to be among the greatest who ever laced them up. People who I thought might have ended up in the Hall of Fame when all was said and done.
Here are the names:

- Andre Ward: came into the supersix like a complete underdog and showed what he was capable of doing. Willing to fight anybody, superb skills.

- Mikey Garcia: dude had power, skills, pretty much everything.

- Brandon Rios: Yes people, I put him here because of his lightweight run. Not saying he was a worldbeater, I am talking about the lightweight version of him. I talk about his warrior spirit, his Carmen Basilio-esque "never-say-die" attitude and his infighting skills. I will explain below some more.

- Adrien Broner: yes, he is in there too. He may not have fought big names at 130 or 135 (Because there were no big names at those weights during that time), but he looked very promising, very skilled. And what happened to him later was the same that happened to Brandon Rios: they moved up in weight and they look like "above-average-fighters", meaning they looked pretty awesome at 130/135 and looked like gatekeepers once they moved up to welterweight. A weightclass they clearly do not belong in.

So - did Rios and Broner look that good at the smaller weightclass because they were fighting smaller guys and now that they are fighting people their own size - their true skills show up. Meaning a lot of their earlier dominance had to do with size advantage and not with pure skills. Or were they fighting people their own size back then and their skills were just so superior? And now they have such a big size disadvantage at 147 that their skills cannot shine through anymore?
Or is the truth somewhere in between those 2 theories?

- Andre Dirrell. When I saw him in the Super 6 tournament he looked like all skills, the full package, amazingly crafty.
Then some issues and a few years later he fights DeGale and you see 2 fighters on the same level. Back in the day I felt Dirrell is 2 classes above a fighter like DeGale (Even though DeGale is a good fighter himself).

It almost looks like the inactivity of Dirrell can be compared to the inactivity of Ali when he was suspended for his unwillingness to go to Vietnam. Ali was a different fighter when those 3 years were taken from him. Just tells us how small that time window for athletes is.

I do know though that contractual issues had something to do with the inactivity of some of the above mentioned fighters.

Andre Ward looked like he could be great, truly great. But, boxing politics and lawsuits took two very important years away from him. Now you can tell that he wants to gradually 'get in the grove of things' before taking a big fight which is understandable but his momentum was completely halted unfortunately. Maybe we can still see great things from Ward, I hope so, I believe so too.

What even happened to Mikey lol? I am not too sure myself, maybe some others here are. But you're right on this one, he looked like a complete fighter.

Broner is talented and could have taken a step onto some greats things had be beat Maidana. The Shawn Porter loss made him look kind of, terrible, in my view. 147 is definitely not where he belongs, although you think he would have the skills to do well there. A few years ago he did look good, impressive. I think he was obsessed with the idea of 'becoming the next super-star" when he should have been obsessed with putting in the hard work to becoming the next super star.

[Weltschmerz]

Inactivity and defeats, what else.

[Jubei]

Andre Ward was lucky he got picked for the Super 6, he was basically unknown in the pro ranks and he got the lucky ticket. During the tournament he was forced to fight tough guys.

Every fight during the Super 6 was won in the fighters homecountry and Ward was the only guy that refused to travel. He always had the full advantages over his opponents with his hometown crowd, hometown ref and judges.

When he had the chance to prove himself after the Super 6 he never fought anyone of note. He also never travelled, had the chance for a megafight in Nottingham vs Froch, had the chance to fight GGG at 168 in 2013 but he always ducked these fights. Now he is left fighting the Rohan Murdocks and 40 year old columbian plumbers that he drags to a higher weightclass.

He also is the biggest crybaby in boxing right now, cant make 168 for 2 years and complains that the fans forced him to move up, now that he realizes he might have to fight a tough slick opponent in Kovalev.

Wards biggest issue is his superiority complex, he cant deal with it that he is a boxing fans nightmare, uncharismatic, boring and unfair.

Adrien Broner has always been a joke, he only was able to bully undersized Lightweights that he outweighed by 10-20 pounds and were tiny in comparison to him.

Every time he stepped up he got beat, and not just beat, beat up. He basically stole money from the fans since he didnt even try fighting against Shawn Porter who badly outmatched him.

Andre Dirrel has severe mental issues. During the Froch fight he thought he could win a fight by running around the ring for 12 rounds and when he fought Abraham he put on a bad actors performane when Abraham hit him with a glancing blow. He was just looking for a way out of the fight, and it was cringeworthy. After that he never came back, he realized that he lied to the whole boxing world since he could have easily continued.

Mikey Garcia, that guy had tremendous talent but i also think he doesnt have that hunger, he seems happy as he is, he might still come back, i'd love to see him in the ring again.

Brandon Rios Likeable guy, but has been in too many wars and he blows up way too much during fights. I heard he was at 190 pounds when he entered the camp for his Bradley fight. He also rehydrated from 147 to 170 pounds over night. Thats all water in Rios case. He will be remembered as a warrior, a good but one dimensional slugger who fought some of the best and made good money out of his limited talent.

[NEETzsche]

back in the super six i thought dirrell would beat ward. i thought he'd beat him to the punch and frustrate him with movement. but it just goes to show what a difference attitude can make

[FlatLine]

Ward - you say he was willing to fight anyone, you forgot to mention as long as it's in his hometown or his home country which is a massive advantage for anyone. Ward refused to fight anyone in the super six outside of his home town/country while every other fighter had to travel to different countries and adjust to time zones, jetlag, training environment etc (not just once, but several times). Still, he's an A-level elite fighter but just a home-town whore.

Broner - essentially he's a C/D-level bum and has been carefully overhyped by promoters and media. He should in fact have 5 losses on his record to Quintero, Ponce De Leon, Malignaggi, Maidana and Porter. He'll get beaten by many C/B-level fighters.

Andre Dirrell - He's still an A-level fighter who will potentially beat anyone else in the supermiddleweight division, of course apart from James Degale who may well be the very best at 168 now.

[firstborn]

Ward - you say he was willing to fight anyone, you forgot to mention as long as it's in his hometown or his home country which is a massive advantage for anyone. Ward refused to fight anyone in the super six outside of his home town/country while every other fighter had to travel to different countries and adjust to time zones, jetlag, training environment etc (not just once, but several times). Still, he's an A-level elite fighter but just a home-town whore.

Broner - essentially he's a C/D-level bum and has been carefully overhyped by promoters and media. He should in fact have 5 losses on his record to Quintero, Ponce De Leon, Malignaggi, Maidana and Porter. He'll get beaten by many C/B-level fighters.

Andre Dirrell - He's still an A-level fighter who will potentially beat anyone else in the supermiddleweight division, of course apart from James Degale who may well be the very best at 168 now.

Ward did receive an unusual advantage when his opponents allowed a relatively unknown fighter to negotiate each of his fights in his home town. But it's not Ward's fault that Froch,Abraham and Kessler allowed it because they took him so lightly.

After Ward won the Super Six he'd earned the right to fight in his home town. Traditionally the champion doesn't travel to meet the challenger so I don't fully understand why everyone keeps harping on the travel issue after the tournament.

Overall though Ward doesn't seem to have the same fire, being financially secure has a way of doing that to people. Like Marvin Hagler said "It's real hard to get up at 5am & run 5 miles when you're in a 4 post bed wearing silk pajamas."

[M Bison]

GGG - He duck Ward, not move to 168lbs, not fight in Oakland, not fight a fight with Steve Smoger and a wrestler, he a joke he a duck quack quack little g maybe if he go to 172lbs and fight for WBA Super SMW title then I forgive hem?

[M Bison]

back in the super six i thought dirrell would beat ward. i thought he'd beat him to the punch and frustrate him with movement. but it just goes to show what a difference attitude can make

The difference of attitude on not fighting him at all and making the ignorant assumption you think Ward beats everyone? Okaaaay.....

[Eff Pandas]

- Andre Ward: came into the supersix like a complete underdog and showed what he was capable of doing. Willing to fight anybody, superb skills.

Problem #1 is promoter related. Can't be great when you aren't fighting cuz of promoter drama. I think Ward is a guy who can easier turn things back on. Problem #2 is he seems to be having issues with getting in the ring lately. He's not really had a test since Dawson a few years back. Everythings been cake since then. 2016 can change things from the sounds of it. If he beats Kovalev he's back on the right path.

- Mikey Garcia: dude had power, skills, pretty much everything.

Problem #1 is promoter related...again. Can't be great if you & your promoter got beef. The effed up thing is Mikey was just coming into his own when this all started so he's got a bit of a tougher road than Ward has since Ward actually did some really impressive ****. That said Mikey is still only 27, 28 iirc so he gots plenty of time to be HOF worthy as long as this TR stuff gets figured out.

- Brandon Rios: Yes people, I put him here because of his lightweight run. Not saying he was a worldbeater, I am talking about the lightweight version of him. I talk about his warrior spirit, his Carmen Basilio-esque "never-say-die" attitude and his infighting skills. I will explain below some more.

I disagree with you on Rios to start with. He always seemed at best a potential Arturo Gatti entertaining to watch type guy. I remember referring to him as the worst elite level undefeated guy for quite awhile. Fun guy who was just never going to be a great fighter.

- Adrien Broner: yes, he is in there too. He may not have fought big names at 130 or 135 (Because there were no big names at those weights during that time), but he looked very promising, very skilled. And what happened to him later was the same that happened to Brandon Rios: they moved up in weight and they look like "above-average-fighters", meaning they looked pretty awesome at 130/135 and looked like gatekeepers once they moved up to welterweight. A weightclass they clearly do not belong in.

Broner might be the only guy who blew it himself if its been blown. He seems talented, but unmotivated &/or unfocused. In the Porter fight he barely seemed present. I suppose at his young age & with his 4 titles already he could easily get serious & turn it on, but I kinda get the feeling he's just a unfocused self destructive type mfer who'll find a way to underperform.

- Andre Dirrell. When I saw him in the Super 6 tournament he looked like all skills, the full package, amazingly crafty.
Then some issues and a few years later he fights DeGale and you see 2 fighters on the same level. Back in the day I felt Dirrell is 2 classes above a fighter like DeGale (Even though DeGale is a good fighter himself).

The Dirrell situation is the most unusual & interesting. I tend to believe he was KO'd/hurt by the Arthur Abraham punch in their fight (I know many people feel he was faking) & that legit f#cked him up for awhile or mentally f#cked him up cuz he hasn't really recovered since that fight in my eyes & has always seemed like a shadow of the fighter I saw up til that fight. The Dirrell family has been very secretive about that whole situation & what kept Andre out of action for so long so I can't really make heads or tails of it at all, but I think there is zero chance that Andre becomes the fighter he was headed towards becoming up til the Abraham fight. I've heard older boxing fans talk about how Hector Camacho had his whole fighting style altered by one Edwin Rosario punch & I feel like Dirrell had his whole career altered by a Arthur Abraham punch.