Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Mayweather-Castillo, Kovalev-Ward

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards answering questions on Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Jose Luis Castillo I, big fights in store for 2016, Sergey Kovalev vs. Andre Ward, Gennady Golovkin vs. Andre Ward, the future of Floyd Mayweather's recently vacated belts and more.

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[RawDawgHasSpokn]

The only thing I like to read on this site anymore.

[Luiz]

Great reading as usual.

[Rip Chudd]

Excellent mailbag. Like another poster said, probably the best thing I read on here.

[OnePunch]

cmon Bread, you cant compare the catchweight scenarios between GGG-Canelo/Cotto winner and that of GGG-Ward. I detest catchweights as much or more as anyone on these boards, but to pretend there is no difference between the 2 scenarios is not being objective:

Scenario 1 has current defending champions WITHIN THE SAME DIVISION in a mandatory title unification fight.

Scenario 2 has top fighters from DIFFERENT DIVISIONS meeting in the middle in an optional non-title fight


On what planet are these scenarios even remotely similar?


And for the record, I understand weight being used as a negotiating tool, but if GGG ever fights Ward I hope it is at 168 so there are no excuses when GGG puts Ward on the floor......

[Zaroku]

I agree with his Castillo vs Mayweather analysis.

[petegrif]

A point on Ward

The Kessler fight showed a side of Ward that you didn't get into. That fight had 88 Ward initiated clinches and he had no points deducted for the continuous holding. (I can't post the URL yet but if you want to see clear evidence supporting this point just go to Youtube and search 'Ward Kessler 88 clinches' and you'll find the 'compuclinch' video fast enough)

In some Ward fights the referee will be important.

In a GGG fight, for example, where Ward is the bigger stronger guy, if he is allowed to neutralize GGG by punching then diving in head down and clinching, as he did with Kessler, then it will be a long night for GGG. GGG is good at backing up to maintain distance but it will be tough. If, however, Ward is penalized for excessive such clinches (as he should be) then it becomes a very different fight.

Ward is indeed very very strong. Froch thought he could manhandle Ward but was himself manhandled inside.

In a Kovalev fight Ward won't necessarily have the strength advantage he normally has, but he will want to dive in and clinch to get out of danger. The referee will remain a factor but because Kovalev is himself very strong, this will be somewhat less important. He won't be able to neutralize then wear Kovalev down the same way he does clinching smaller fighters. But even though the ref won't be as important was in the case of GGG it will still be a factor because this clinching tactic is so favored by Ward and is very effective, even though it is against the rules.

Sadly, this rule is very unevenly enforced. If I were managing a fighter like GGG or Kovalev and taking on Ward I would want to be very confident that the selected referee would be one that would enforce this rule fairly. Some clinching is fine, but Ward has taken it to ridiculous extremes when facing a dangerous opponent.

[Progrssive_Jedi]

That fight had 88 Ward initiated clinches and he had no points deducted for the continuous holding. (I can't post the URL yet but if you want to see clear evidence supporting this point just go to Youtube and search 'Ward Kessler 88 clinches' and you'll find the 'compuclinch' video fast enough)

In a GGG fight, for example, where Ward is the bigger stronger guy, if he is allowed to neutralize GGG by punching then diving in head down and clinching, as he did with Kessler, then it will be a long night for GGG. GGG is good at backing up to maintain distance but it will be tough. If, however, Ward is penalized for excessive such clinches (as he should be) then it becomes a very different fight.

Great analysis. Ward has taken it to extremes. And he wings his head around in a way that fighters have to be concerned about head butts

I've always thought Ward's only really shot against GGG or Kovalev I to use his dirty tricks.

Although the mailbag doesn't call them dirty tricks, he does mention how Ward ties up his opponent. It really does depend on GGG ability to not get tied up.

However, I see GGG circling Ward landing hard shots when ever in range.

After some time, Ward will realize everyone time he goes in to clinch, GGG is landing some pretty hard liver shots.

Ward is good at changing strategies, but he isn't going to out box GGG. Shorty after Ward tries, he will be TKO'd, which Ward complains about for another year.

[j0zef]

The Kessler fight showed a side of Ward that you didn't get into. That fight had 88 Ward initiated clinches and he had no points deducted for the continuous holding. (I can't post the URL yet but if you want to see clear evidence supporting this point just go to Youtube and search 'Ward Kessler 88 clinches' and you'll find the 'compuclinch' video fast enough)

In some Ward fights the referee will be important.

In a GGG fight, for example, where Ward is the bigger stronger guy, if he is allowed to neutralize GGG by punching then diving in head down and clinching, as he did with Kessler, then it will be a long night for GGG. GGG is good at backing up to maintain distance but it will be tough. If, however, Ward is penalized for excessive such clinches (as he should be) then it becomes a very different fight.

Ward is indeed very very strong. Froch thought he could manhandle Ward but was himself manhandled inside.

In a Kovalev fight Ward won't necessarily have the strength advantage he normally has, but he will want to dive in and clinch to get out of danger. The referee will remain a factor but because Kovalev is himself very strong, this will be somewhat less important. He won't be able to neutralize then wear Kovalev down the same way he does clinching smaller fighters. But even though the ref won't be as important was in the case of GGG it will still be a factor because this clinching tactic is so favored by Ward and is very effective, even though it is against the rules.

Sadly, this rule is very unevenly enforced. If I were managing a fighter like GGG or Kovalev and taking on Ward I would want to be very confident that the selected referee would be one that would enforce this rule fairly. Some clinching is fine, but Ward has taken it to ridiculous extremes when facing a dangerous opponent.

Solid first post.

[Bandman]

The Kessler fight showed a side of Ward that you didn't get into. That fight had 88 Ward initiated clinches and he had no points deducted for the continuous holding. (I can't post the URL yet but if you want to see clear evidence supporting this point just go to Youtube and search 'Ward Kessler 88 clinches' and you'll find the 'compuclinch' video fast enough)

In some Ward fights the referee will be important.

In a GGG fight, for example, where Ward is the bigger stronger guy, if he is allowed to neutralize GGG by punching then diving in head down and clinching, as he did with Kessler, then it will be a long night for GGG. GGG is good at backing up to maintain distance but it will be tough. If, however, Ward is penalized for excessive such clinches (as he should be) then it becomes a very different fight.

Ward is indeed very very strong. Froch thought he could manhandle Ward but was himself manhandled inside.

In a Kovalev fight Ward won't necessarily have the strength advantage he normally has, but he will want to dive in and clinch to get out of danger. The referee will remain a factor but because Kovalev is himself very strong, this will be somewhat less important. He won't be able to neutralize then wear Kovalev down the same way he does clinching smaller fighters. But even though the ref won't be as important was in the case of GGG it will still be a factor because this clinching tactic is so favored by Ward and is very effective, even though it is against the rules.

Sadly, this rule is very unevenly enforced. If I were managing a fighter like GGG or Kovalev and taking on Ward I would want to be very confident that the selected referee would be one that would enforce this rule fairly. Some clinching is fine, but Ward has taken it to ridiculous extremes when facing a dangerous opponent.

if refs actually enforced the rule, Ali would be disqualified in half his fights ,especially vs foreman. Ali was the Wladimir of the 70s. he clinched, headlocked and landed rabbit punches nonstop. but since its a sin to criticize him, everyone ignores how dirty he was.

clinching is just something you have to accept. if refs dont enforce it then ward should not change a damn thing about his game. but there are ways to avoid a clinch, instead of crying boxers need to learn to break free themselves. kovalev does it to perfection, its impossible to clinch him, he puts his arms up and slides right out to continue punishing you. what ward does would probably not work there. but wards boxing IQ is superior he will find a way to win. theres many layers to his game. he dominated abraham with a jab, he mauled green, bika and kessler with inside fighting and destroyed froch from the outside. ward has many tools in his arsenal. him vs kovalev is the biggest fight in boxing.