I have a question, and I need some opinions

[boxingnut712]

It really could come down to just this (and we'll almost certainly never know).

Was there testimony as to exactly when, where and how this "unofficial" weight was determined? Do we know who witnessed it to give that number (4 3/4) to HBO?

Because if this number is incorrect -- let's say he checked again on an uncalibrated bathroom scale at the hotel before heading over to the arena, or simply a scale that was off (these unofficial for-HBO prefight weights are not conducted in public and monitored by a commission) or even someone at HBO asked and he or someone in his camp said "145" or "about 145" then, bingo, a house of cards can be built on a foundation that isn't factually accurate.

Since he was 140 1/4 and his "unofficial" weight just happens to end in 3/4 so it comes out to a nice, even number makes me wonder if there is any reality to the number at all.

So was there testimony to this, any witness to this fight-night weigh-in, or does it all come down to something HBO "reported" on the telecast?

I can only tell you what this Szoke chap says. Granted this story is odd, but the guy does seem to have his ducks in a row, and he seems to snap out answers pretty quickly when asked quetions. My understanding is that Szoke is using these numbers as a basis to back his claim that the scales used at the official weigh in were tampered with by Tony Russo. Szoke believes that Gamache would have put on more then 4 3/4 pounds after the official weigh in knowing full well that Gatti put on significant weight between the weigh in, and the fight. If my understanding is correct, Szoke is using this because he sent his videotape copy, and an additional copy of the official scales used at Madison Square Garden being corrupted to the New York State Athletic Commission, and the Attorney General's Office of the State Of New York on advice from his local Police Department. Szoke further points out that the scale used to weigh in the fighters was calibrated, and set, and they sent the scale out a second time to be calibrated before anyone ever official ever weighed in. Szoke also said that he found it odd that when the official weights were recorded that Gatti, and De La Hoya wer both supposedly heavy, Derrell Coley was supposedly grossly under weight, and after getting on the official scale three times Joey Gamache was nearly right on.

As for the unofficial numbers the next night that was conducted by HBO in the dressing room on what is described as a bathroom scale in the court deposition. If the commission did monitor this, then I have no idea. I am only taking a gander here mate in guessing that when they say bathroom scale what they mean is a flat scale that sits on the floor with a manual dial that is used to calibrate the scale, and set the thing at zero. Szoke said Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room. Once he weighed 145 which is in the court deposition. I don't know if that is with, or without clothes on. The second weight was recorded after he had his boxing gear on. Tapes, trunks, gloves, and an athletic cup. That weight was recorded at 147 Lbs, and 9 ounces. I do not know if that is on the same HBO scale, or a personal scale.

Szoke said he did not stay with his friends for the fight the next night, and that a snow storm was coming, so he went home to Pennsylvania. Szoke said they did not have any access to the dressing rooms for the fight. Just the weigh in. Szoke said the that he was told from someone that was inside Gamache's dressing room that the mood of Gamache, and his handlers in the dressing room was that of a man whom was terminally ill on life support, and going to his grave. Honestly I believe there is something to this story. Why would a guy in Tony Russo whom was a convicted felon show up for a non heavyweight event when he never showed up for non heavyweight events. Why would Tony Russo conduct the weigh in when Bob Duffy does the weigh ins. Bob Duffy was there according to Szoke. Szoke said Bob Duffy was not late like Mel Southard said in the court deposition.

If all these deaths are somehow related to this weigh in, and fight, then that is one bloody hot potato. The problem is I would not know how to go about proving that. I do not know what to make of Gatti's death down in Brazil, and I have no clue as to whom is lying, and who is telling the truth down there, nor do I have any idea whom is lying, and telling the truth about the actual weigh in for the Derrell Coley vs Oscar De La Hoya, and Joey Gamache vs Arturo Gatti fights. There is a crowd of people that says one thing, and another crowd that says another. Still I would have a responsibility to prove that, and corruption at this weigh in if I was to produce anything. These 4 chaps are the only people on earth that I have ever heard of defending Arturo Gatti. Everyone claims that Gatti cheated at the weigh in. I do not seeing him cheating at all. If someone is in fact cheating it is the commission. I have heard stories of Jose Luis Castillo cheating at the scale, but for whatever reason what ever happened at the weigh in for the Joey Gamache fight does not match what is on pictures, and film as the media is reporting it. If Gatti voilently gets on the scale, and gets right back off the scale, then I would like to know what weigh in the fight media was watching because on the limited footage that I have Gatti gets on the scale, and he stays on it.

The problem here is that this commission was, and still to this day is corrupt. I am not sure if the commission doctors weighed Joey at the Commission office for the physical, or if that was just his manager weighing him up there. If they did can we even trust that information? These are the guys who went to lunch when Panama Lewis was taking the padding out of the gloves. These are the guys that never licensed the judges in the Holyfield - Lewis fight, and put first time inspectors in the corner. These are the guys that put vastly inexperienced judges, and referees into important 10, and 12 round fights to start their careers. These are the guys that are currently giving second, and third drug tests to boxers that failed the first ones. They are dirtier then dirt. Still I need more factual information which I do not think that I am ever going to have. If I had a copy of the New York State Athletic Commission tampering with the scales, then I would have something to go on to get to the next step. It is too bad because Szoke seems like a real nice fella. I asked him what he wanted to get out of this, and he said that he just wants someone to finally listen to him, and get his story heard. He said that he stop watching boxing in 2009 because all he could see anymore were fixed fights. Szoke also said that he was spending unhealthy amounts of time reading boxing news sites, blogging daily, and chatting with other fans. He said it had become a daily habit as if it was his job, but he was only a fan. Szoke claims to have spent almost every Friday, and Saturday night watching ESPN, HBO, or SHowtime for boxing between 1998, and 2009

You seem somewhat interested in this saintpat. Szoke is not a hard guy to find. He is on facebook under his name. I would give you his other contact information, but it is against forum rules. I may have even violated the forum regulations by posting some of this here. I still do not understand how anyone would have ever gotten any money out of this Lawsuit. You would have almost had to have had a fixed judge, jury, and witnesses. Apparently Joey Gamache got the media on board because I do not have the slightest idea what the media is talking about when they write about this weigh in. Szoke said he has not given up on speaking to Leonard Langley, or Derrell Coley, but thus far his attempts to reach Coley have not been successful. I am in fact curious myself as to why Coley never filed anything against De La Hoya, or the commission. Under Nevada regulations, if you do not make weight for a title fight, you just lost the title at the scale. They never reweighed De La Hoya, and they let him keep the title.

To me it seems highly suspect. Joey gets his physical between noon & 1 PM the day of the weigh in where they claim to weigh 140 1/4 on a commission scale at their office. From there they show up at the Garden early expecting to talking HBO, but HBO is across the street. While they are at the Garden they check their weight on the official Garden scale used to conduct the official weigh in. It registers them as 137. The scale is then supposedly calibrated a second time now, and the scale now reads 140 1/4 pounds. This is the point where Szoke Claims the scale had been tampered with. Gamache goes across the street to see HBO knowing he has 3/4 of a pound to play with. From the point of his physical to the point his official weight is called at 140 1/4 Gamache does not gain, or lose a single ounce. Gamache takes in nothing, ex spells nothing from his system, does not lose anything walking around back, and forth, and weighs the same weight he did at the commission office 3 hours earlier at his physical. I could see Gamache not drinking anything, or taking anything in, but surely he would have shed an ounce in that time. It was February. It was cold outside. It was going to snow the next day. Surely Joey would have gone to the bathroom once.

[saintpat]

I can only tell you what this Szoke chap says. Granted this story is odd, but the guy does seem to have his ducks in a row, and he seems to snap out answers pretty quickly when asked quetions. My understanding is that Szoke is using these numbers as a basis to back his claim that the scales used at the official weigh in were tampered with by Tony Russo. Szoke believes that Gamache would have put on more then 4 3/4 pounds after the official weigh in knowing full well that Gatti put on significant weight between the weigh in, and the fight. If my understanding is correct, Szoke is using this because he sent his videotape copy, and an additional copy of the official scales used at Madison Square Garden being corrupted to the New York State Athletic Commission, and the Attorney General's Office of the State Of New York on advice from his local Police Department. Szoke further points out that the scale used to weigh in the fighters was calibrated, and set, and they sent the scale out a second time to be calibrated before anyone ever official ever weighed in. Szoke also said that he found it odd that when the official weights were recorded that Gatti, and De La Hoya wer both supposedly heavy, Derrell Coley was supposedly grossly under weight, and after getting on the official scale three times Joey Gamache was nearly right on.

As for the unofficial numbers the next night that was conducted by HBO in the dressing room on what is described as a bathroom scale in the court deposition. If the commission did monitor this, then I have no idea. I am only taking a gander here mate in guessing that when they say bathroom scale what they mean is a flat scale that sits on the floor with a manual dial that is used to calibrate the scale, and set the thing at zero. Szoke said Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room. Once he weighed 145 which is in the court deposition. I don't know if that is with, or without clothes on. The second weight was recorded after he had his boxing gear on. Tapes, trunks, gloves, and an athletic cup. That weight was recorded at 147 Lbs, and 9 ounces. I do not know if that is on the same HBO scale, or a personal scale.

Szoke said he did not stay with his friends for the fight the next night, and that a snow storm was coming, so he went home to Pennsylvania. Szoke said they did not have any access to the dressing rooms for the fight. Just the weigh in. Szoke said the that he was told from someone that was inside Gamache's dressing room that the mood of Gamache, and his handlers in the dressing room was that of a man whom was terminally ill on life support, and going to his grave. Honestly I believe there is something to this story. Why would a guy in Tony Russo whom was a convicted felon show up for a non heavyweight event when he never showed up for non heavyweight events. Why would Tony Russo conduct the weigh in when Bob Duffy does the weigh ins. Bob Duffy was there according to Szoke. Szoke said Bob Duffy was not late like Mel Southard said in the court deposition.

If all these deaths are somehow related to this weigh in, and fight, then that is one bloody hot potato. The problem is I would not know how to go about proving that. I do not know what to make of Gatti's death down in Brazil, and I have no clue as to whom is lying, and who is telling the truth down there, nor do I have any idea whom is lying, and telling the truth about the actual weigh in for the Derrell Coley vs Oscar De La Hoya, and Joey Gamache vs Arturo Gatti fights. There is a crowd of people that says one thing, and another crowd that says another. Still I would have a responsibility to prove that, and corruption at this weigh in if I was to produce anything. These 4 chaps are the only people on earth that I have ever heard of defending Arturo Gatti. Everyone claims that Gatti cheated at the weigh in. I do not seeing him cheating at all. If someone is in fact cheating it is the commission. I have heard stories of Jose Luis Castillo cheating at the scale, but for whatever reason what ever happened at the weigh in for the Joey Gamache fight does not match what is on pictures, and film as the media is reporting it. If Gatti voilently gets on the scale, and gets right back off the scale, then I would like to know what weigh in the fight media was watching because on the limited footage that I have Gatti gets on the scale, and he stays on it.

The problem here is that this commission was, and still to this day is corrupt. I am not sure if the commission doctors weighed Joey at the Commission office for the physical, or if that was just his manager weighing him up there. If they did can we even trust that information? These are the guys who went to lunch when Panama Lewis was taking the padding out of the gloves. These are the guys that never licensed the judges in the Holyfield - Lewis fight, and put first time inspectors in the corner. These are the guys that put vastly inexperienced judges, and referees into important 10, and 12 round fights to start their careers. These are the guys that are currently giving second, and third drug tests to boxers that failed the first ones. They are dirtier then dirt. Still I need more factual information which I do not think that I am ever going to have. If I had a copy of the New York State Athletic Commission tampering with the scales, then I would have something to go on to get to the next step. It is too bad because Szoke seems like a real nice fella. I asked him what he wanted to get out of this, and he said that he just wants someone to finally listen to him, and get his story heard. He said that he stop watching boxing in 2009 because all he could see anymore were fixed fights. Szoke also said that he was spending unhealthy amounts of time reading boxing news sites, blogging daily, and chatting with other fans. He said it had become a daily habit as if it was his job, but he was only a fan. Szoke claims to have spent almost every Friday, and Saturday night watching ESPN, HBO, or SHowtime for boxing between 1998, and 2009

You seem somewhat interested in this saintpat. Szoke is not a hard guy to find. He is on facebook under his name. I would give you his other contact information, but it is against forum rules. I may have even violated the forum regulations by posting some of this here. I still do not understand how anyone would have ever gotten any money out of this Lawsuit. You would have almost had to have had a fixed judge, jury, and witnesses. Apparently Joey Gamache got the media on board because I do not have the slightest idea what the media is talking about when they write about this weigh in. Szoke said he has not given up on speaking to Leonard Langley, or Derrell Coley, but thus far his attempts to reach Coley have not been successful. I am in fact curious myself as to why Coley never filed anything against De La Hoya, or the commission. Under Nevada regulations, if you do not make weight for a title fight, you just lost the title at the scale. They never reweighed De La Hoya, and they let him keep the title.

To me it seems highly suspect. Joey gets his physical between noon & 1 PM the day of the weigh in where they claim to weigh 140 1/4 on a commission scale at their office. From there they show up at the Garden early expecting to talking HBO, but HBO is across the street. While they are at the Garden they check their weight on the official Garden scale used to conduct the official weigh in. It registers them as 137. The scale is then supposedly calibrated a second time now, and the scale now reads 140 1/4 pounds. This is the point where Szoke Claims the scale had been tampered with. Gamache goes across the street to see HBO knowing he has 3/4 of a pound to play with. From the point of his physical to the point his official weight is called at 140 1/4 Gamache does not gain, or lose a single ounce. Gamache takes in nothing, ex spells nothing from his system, does not lose anything walking around back, and forth, and weighs the same weight he did at the commission office 3 hours earlier at his physical. I could see Gamache not drinking anything, or taking anything in, but surely he would have shed an ounce in that time. It was February. It was cold outside. It was going to snow the next day. Surely Joey would have gone to the bathroom once.

I still don't understand -- did you not just say (1) Szoke did not attend the fight because there was a storm coming, (2) Szoke could not get into the dressing room of a fight that he did not attend, and (3) he claims Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room, etc. -- but according to both of the above, he wasn't there.

You say he seems like a nice guy. To me, he sounds like a guy who sees black helicopters. A lot of his claims (or your claims of what he claims) don't add up ... as pointed out above, or the claim that Gatti was supposed to testify in the trial two days after he died (July 11, 2009) but the trial happened in 2010 (verdict in April). Can you or Szoke substantiate the idea that he was supposed to testify two days later, or is that just what this guy says? For that matter, is he the only source for the claim that these now-dead firefighters were actually at the weigh-in? Were they supposed to be deposed in the lawsuit, or did they die before it was filed?

Without a lot more answers, I have to say that I suspect this guy's wearing some tinfoil. If the mob wanted him dead, they wouldn't stop at a failed attempt to supposedly sabotage his car -- he'd be killed in a "burgulary attempt" or "mugging" or something.

If he really wants answers, he should start by posting his weigh-in video somewhere (Facebook or whatever) and go public with his claims.

[boxingnut712]

I still don't understand -- did you not just say (1) Szoke did not attend the fight because there was a storm coming, (2) Szoke could not get into the dressing room of a fight that he did not attend, and (3) he claims Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room, etc. -- but according to both of the above, he wasn't there.

You say he seems like a nice guy. To me, he sounds like a guy who sees black helicopters. A lot of his claims (or your claims of what he claims) don't add up ... as pointed out above, or the claim that Gatti was supposed to testify in the trial two days after he died (July 11, 2009) but the trial happened in 2010 (verdict in April). Can you or Szoke substantiate the idea that he was supposed to testify two days later, or is that just what this guy says? For that matter, is he the only source for the claim that these now-dead firefighters were actually at the weigh-in? Were they supposed to be deposed in the lawsuit, or did they die before it was filed?

Without a lot more answers, I have to say that I suspect this guy's wearing some tinfoil. If the mob wanted him dead, they wouldn't stop at a failed attempt to supposedly sabotage his car -- he'd be killed in a "burgulary attempt" or "mugging" or something.

If he really wants answers, he should start by posting his weigh-in video somewhere (Facebook or whatever) and go public with his claims.

Whell if you think your confused, then imagine how I feel. It is like I am say speaking english, and your speaking something else.

1) Szoke did not attend the fight on Saturday February 26th at Madison Square Garden. Szoke attended the weigh in at Madison Square Garden on Friday February 25th. Szoke's three friends attended both the fight, and the weigh in which took place on 2 separate days. They were from New York. Szoke is from Pennsylvania.

2) The events that are described at the Commission Physical, and the events that took place in the dressing room are public accounts made so by people like Johnny Bos, Jack Hirsch, and Thomas Hauser. Are you going to say blackhawk helicopters are chasing them as well?

3) A bunch of fight fans are not going to have access to a fighters dressing room unless they are very close friends, or family.

4) While I see some of what you are saying, I have explored the idea the Szoke, and his friends are nothing more then a bunch of nut hugging Gatti fans whom are / were making up a story of sorts. Kind of like this gent Elroy I have been talking to whom thinks Tomasz Adamek is an all time great, however, when someone has a stamped United States Postal delivery confirmation receipt addressed to Pat Lynch, The New York State Attorney Generals Office, and New York State Athletic Commission that is kind of hard to dispute that Szoke actually did not sent something to these people. I mean he would have to know someone inside the postal system to falsify a federal document. I do not think any nut hugging fan is going to risk possible imprisonment over that.Then he would have to know someone at AT&T to falsify phone records. Who is going to do that?

5) If posting a pictures of this guys details is legal under the guidelines of the forum, can you please explain to me how to post a jpeg image. I see how to post a URL link, but I do not know how to post pictures. I have less then 100 posts here. You have 13000.

6) The date of the trial is in the first sentence of the deposition. July 13th - July 17, 2009. The verdict was made official March 26, 2010. The opening proceedings of the trial took place in April of 2009.

http://vertumnus.courts.state.ny.us/...0-036-700.html

Do you now expect me to explain how the legal proceedings in the state of New York work? Ask them. In the meantime why don't you call the New York State Athletic Commission, and ask to speak to the legal department headed by Hugo Pinta. If he still works there maybe you can ask him about Mr. Szoke's home movie because I am dying to see it to, then you call Governor Cuomo, and ask him why the State of New York never even contacted Mr. Szoke, or addressed his complaint in regard to this matter. You can further ask the good governor about a copy of the fore mentioned home movie that was sent to that office as well.

7) As for someone taking a shot at Mr. Szoke, and killing his friends, if someone is incapacitated in a hospital, and physical therapy rehabilitation center, then there is going to be this thing called witnesses. If someone is incapacitated for the duration of a trial, and that person can not get to the trial. Mission accomplished. Why would they come back????

Take a good look at the car. It is a miracle anyone could survive that hitting a snow plow at 55 MPH. The front end of that car is in a 1000 pieces. Just exactly how do you expect anyone to find evidence of foul play after that?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/beth...1/post_77.html

8) one man was a firefighter whom died on 9/11. Rosario, and Harper were killed behind the wheel of a car in Long Island in March of 2009. Both Harper, and Rosario contacted the New York State Athletic Commission, The Attorney Generals's Office, and the FBI in Newark, NJ. No one ever contacted them before their obituary birthdays in March of 2009. They did not make it Szoke did. You follow mate?

Again I am asking questions about the weigh in, and the rehydration process. You are asking questions of just about everything else, and now you will come back here saying this jumps around when these are the specific details you bloody well asked me for.

[saintpat]

Whell if you think your confused, then imagine how I feel. It is like I am say speaking english, and your speaking something else.

1) Szoke did not attend the fight on Saturday February 26th at Madison Square Garden. Szoke attended the weigh in at Madison Square Garden on Friday February 25th. Szoke's three friends attended both the fight, and the weigh in which took place on 2 separate days. They were from New York. Szoke is from Pennsylvania.

2) The events that are described at the Commission Physical, and the events that took place in the dressing room are public accounts made so by people like Johnny Bos, Jack Hirsch, and Thomas Hauser. Are you going to say blackhawk helicopters are chasing them as well?

3) A bunch of fight fans are not going to have access to a fighters dressing room unless they are very close friends, or family.

4) While I see some of what you are saying, I have explored the idea the Szoke, and his friends are nothing more then a bunch of nut hugging Gatti fans whom are / were making up a story of sorts. Kind of like this gent Elroy I have been talking to whom thinks Tomasz Adamek is an all time great, however, when someone has a stamped United States Postal delivery confirmation receipt addressed to Pat Lynch, The New York State Attorney Generals Office, and New York State Athletic Commission that is kind of hard to dispute that Szoke actually did not sent something to these people. I mean he would have to know someone inside the postal system to falsify a federal document. I do not think any nut hugging fan is going to risk possible imprisonment over that.Then he would have to know someone at AT&T to falsify phone records. Who is going to do that?

5) If posting a pictures of this guys details is legal under the guidelines of the forum, can you please explain to me how to post a jpeg image. I see how to post a URL link, but I do not know how to post pictures. I have less then 100 posts here. You have 13000.

6) The date of the trial is in the first sentence of the deposition. July 13th - July 17, 2009. The verdict was made official March 26, 2010. The opening proceedings of the trial took place in April of 2009.

http://vertumnus.courts.state.ny.us/...0-036-700.html

Do you now expect me to explain how the legal proceedings in the state of New York work? Ask them. In the meantime why don't you call the New York State Athletic Commission, and ask to speak to the legal department headed by Hugo Pinta. If he still works there maybe you can ask him about Mr. Szoke's home movie because I am dying to see it to, then you call Governor Cuomo, and ask him why the State of New York never even contacted Mr. Szoke, or addressed his complaint in regard to this matter. You can further ask the good governor about a copy of the fore mentioned home movie that was sent to that office as well.

7) As for someone taking a shot at Mr. Szoke, and killing his friends, if someone is incapacitated in a hospital, and physical therapy rehabilitation center, then there is going to be this thing called witnesses. If someone is incapacitated for the duration of a trial, and that person can not get to the trial. Mission accomplished. Why would they come back????

Take a good look at the car. It is a miracle anyone could survive that hitting a snow plow at 55 MPH. The front end of that car is in a 1000 pieces. Just exactly how do you expect anyone to find evidence of foul play after that?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/beth...1/post_77.html

8) one man was a firefighter whom died on 9/11. Rosario, and Harper were killed behind the wheel of a car in Long Island in March of 2009. Both Harper, and Rosario contacted the New York State Athletic Commission, The Attorney Generals's Office, and the FBI in Newark, NJ. No one ever contacted them before their obituary birthdays in March of 2009. They did not make it Szoke did. You follow mate?

Again I am asking questions about the weigh in, and the rehydration process. You are asking questions of just about everything else, and now you will come back here saying this jumps around when these are the specific details you bloody well asked me for.

No, I really do not follow. Which is what I've been saying.

I believe this is my 379th post on this forum according to what it says under my sig. No idea where you got 13,000.

I have no desire to contact the state of New York. I don't know why you think I would.

I keep asking what seem like basic questions and you throw out 13,000-word diatribes that make no sense to me. You post what happened in the locker room (with the fight-night weigh-in) and say "Szoke says' this is what happened ... then proceed to say he wasn't even there.

They've concluded what happened in plane crashes where pieces the size of postage stamps are collected over literally hundreds of acres. I think competent investigators have a decent chance of figuring out what caused a car crash if foul play is suspected.

Just reach out to your guy and ask him to post his video. Then we call can see it.

I don't think Thomas Hauser and others are wearing tinfoil because I haven't seen anyone claim that they are saying people were killed over a deal where it's beyond ridiculous to think there was a reason to kill them -- even you admit there's no motive to do this as there's no money to be made, no one going to prison for life if this or that person testifies.

Of the people who died, if I follow, one was killed on 9/11 and now you're saying the other two died in the same car wreck. That doesn't, to me, raise su****ions unless the police find that their brake line was cut or something. You (or Szoke) seem to imply that they were killed over this weigh-in thing ... but if they are all firefighters then I guess a conspiracy-minded person could just as easily cook up some claim that there was corruption in the fire department that was being covered up.

I just think more and more that this is the ramblings of a madman.

With that said, I'll leave it to you, but if you can post anything of substance or provide the video with some explanation of what it is supposed to be showing, I'll read with interest.

[boxingnut712]

No, I really do not follow. Which is what I've been saying.



I have no desire to contact the state of New York. I don't know why you think I would.

Why are you afraid that they are going to tell you something you don't want to hear?

I keep asking what seem like basic questions and you throw out 13,000-word diatribes that make no sense to me. You post what happened in the locker room (with the fight-night weigh-in) and say "Szoke says' this is what happened ... then proceed to say he wasn't even there.

Szoke did not attend the fight on Saturday February 26th at Madison Square Garden. Szoke attended the weigh in at Madison Square Garden on Friday February 25th. Szoke's three friends attended both the fight, and the weigh in which took place on 2 separate days. They were from New York. Szoke is from Pennsylvania. I could not have made it any clearer then that

They've concluded what happened in plane crashes where pieces the size of postage stamps are collected over literally hundreds of acres. I think competent investigators have a decent chance of figuring out what caused a car crash if foul play is suspected.

Yeah they sent the Pennsylvania State Police not the top forensic teams in the world. They could not figure it out. http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/beth...erton_man.html


Just reach out to your guy and ask him to post his video. Then we call can see it.

I don't think Thomas Hauser and others are wearing tinfoil because I haven't seen anyone claim that they are saying people were killed over a deal where it's beyond ridiculous to think there was a reason to kill them -- even you admit there's no motive to do this as there's no money to be made, no one going to prison for life if this or that person testifies.

Contact the Palmerton Police Department. I could not have made it any clearer then this: Szoke is using this because he sent his videotape copy, and an additional copy of the footage filmed at the Garden that official scales used at Madison Square Garden were being corrupted to the New York State Athletic Commission, and the Attorney General's Office of the State Of New York on advice from his local Police Department.

Of the people who died, if I follow, one was killed on 9/11 and now you're saying the other two died in the same car wreck. That doesn't, to me, raise su****ions unless the police find that their brake line was cut or something. You (or Szoke) seem to imply that they were killed over this weigh-in thing ... but if they are all firefighters then I guess a conspiracy-minded person could just as easily cook up some claim that there was corruption in the fire department that was being covered up.

I just think more and more that this is the ramblings of a madman.

With that said, I'll leave it to you, but if you can post anything of substance or provide the video with some explanation of what it is supposed to be showing, I'll read with interest.

Again I am asking questions about the weigh in, and the rehydration process. You are asking questions of just about everything else, and now you will come back here saying this jumps around when these are the specific details you bloody well asked me for. TOLD YA

Okay 379 post my bad. Now are you HIGH, or just DRUNK? You have told me nothing on how to upload a Jpeg image. Even if I had a video to upload I would not know how. If you have nothing further to add to the dates of Friday February 25th, or 26th 2000 shoo fly shoo. I'll call you when I get to 2009.

[saintpat]

1. Szoke said Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room.

2. Szoke said he did not stay with his friends for the fight the next night, and that a snow storm was coming, so he went home to Pennsylvania. Szoke said they did not have any access to the dressing rooms for the fight.

3. Szoke said the that he was told from someone that was inside Gamache's dressing room that the mood of Gamache, and his handlers in the dressing room was that of a man whom was terminally ill on life support, and going to his grave.

I numbered these to make my points clearer. Otherwise the quotes are directly from a single one of your posts and unedited.

Do you see No. 1, where you say that Szoke tells us what went on in the dressing room?

Do you see No. 2, where you tell us that (a) Szoke was not in the dressing room, (b) not at the fight, (c) actually in another state and (d) his friends were also not in the dressing room?

Now please explain to me how the f*** he can know what went on in the dressing room where neither he nor his friend were? That's as absurd as me telling you what happened in Ford Theater on the night of the Lincoln assassination.

So you, perhaps, can see where I question a lot of what he says if he's telling you what happened at a place and time where neither he nor his friends were.

As for No. 3, the very court summary of testimony which you linked has a section on a writer who was writing a story on Gamache, who had been with him in training camp and who was in the locker room. He testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits and confident on the night of the fight and that he was going to knock Gatti out.

I question Szoke because I think he's off his rocker and, very obviously, obsessed with this topic.

As to why I don't contact the state of New York to try to ask the governor or someone else (who wasn't there) about what happened in a locker room or weigh-in almost 20 years ago ... I have a lot of other things that are way more important to me. This is an internet discussion.

You say all you care about is how much someone could, would or might rehydrate -- as if your only interest in this is a thirst for scientific knowledge -- those questions have been answered.

It was you, not me, who broke Szoke into this and his bizarre theories about multiple murders to cover up some nefarious weigh-in conspiracy. All I did was ask questions about things you introduced into the thread.

But, again, and finally, I'm moving on. Enjoy the helicotpers.

EDIT: I haven't told you how to post a gif or a photo or a video because I don't know how. Contact the mods. There's probably a section or thread somewhere where you can do that.

You can, surely, post those things on Facebook or somewhere else and link them. If all Szoke wants is to have his story heard, he can post it on Facebook and he can post the video there and you can link them.

[boxingnut712]

Do you see No. 1, where you say that Szoke tells us what went on in the dressing room?

Do you see No. 2, where you tell us that (a) Szoke was not in the dressing room, (b) not at the fight, (c) actually in another state and (d) his friends were also not in the dressing room?

Now please explain to me how the f*** he can know what went on in the dressing room where neither he nor his friend were? That's as absurd as me telling you what happened in Ford Theater on the night of the Lincoln assassination.

So you, perhaps, can see where I question a lot of what he says if he's telling you what happened at a place and time where neither he nor his friends were.

As for No. 3, the very court summary of testimony which you linked has a section on a writer who was writing a story on Gamache, who had been with him in training camp and who was in the locker room. He testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits and confident on the night of the fight and that he was going to knock Gatti out.

Szoke says his information from what was going on in the dressing room is from Jack Hirsch of Peakness Boxing News, and Thomas Hauser whom wrote a book about Muhammad Ali.

Forget everything you have read, and just read the next post.

[boxingnut712]

Let me draw this out in crayon so that all the special needs folks can understand it, and simplify this so anyone else can understand it.

A fight is agreed upon between Joey Gamache, and Arturo Gatti. Joey Gamache enters a training camp at 158 pounds to which the last 2 pounds are extremely difficult to shed. Arturo Gatti enters his camp at 170 pounds.

http://vertumnus.courts.state.ny.us/...0-036-700.html

Its Friday afternoon February 25th, 2000.
Johnny Bos ( The former manager of Joey Gamache ) says: " I weighed Joey up at the commission office at the Physical. Joey weighed 140 1/4, so I thought we were in good shape for the real thing down at the Garden "

Down at the garden three hours later before Arturo Gatti's entourage is present, Joey Gamache, and his handlers show up expecting to talk with HBO. HBO is not there, but they are at the Southgate Hotel across the street. While at the Garden the Gamache entourage checks their weight twice on the official garden scale which has now been calibrated twice. Gamache weighs 137. After having the scale calibrated again Gamache now again weighs 140 1/4. - This is all in the court deposition. These are the words of Joey Gamache, and Johnny Bos. These words are located in the court deposition, and are that of Johnny Bos, and Joey Gamache.

One hour later after going across the street to the Southgate Hote for the HBO fighter meetings, everyone comes back for the official weigh in. Derrell Coley weighs 143 1/2 pounds grossly less then the contract weight of 147 pounds. This number is in the April edition of Ring Magazine. Just prior to this, Oscar De La Hoya appears to miss weight, but his weight is officially called at 147, but there is no re weighing. Again this number is in Ring Magazine.

Arturo Gatti gets on the scale, and the scale does not balance. The commission mistakenly has the scale set for 140 pounds, and not 141. This information is in the court deposition. The commission officially calls Gatti's weight at 141 pounds, but the needle does not balance like at the Oscar De Hoya weigh in. Joey Gamache gets on the scale, and again still weighs 140 1/4 pounds. Again despite protests there is no re weighing. See the court Deposition. Derrell Coley's trainer / manager Leonard Langley says " see it happened again ". Again this is all in Ring Magazine April 2000 edition.

Now no one at this point in time is deceased, and the fight is yet to even take place. No one gives two craps about a firefighter in the training academy with a video camera whom got his three friends into the weigh in through another friend in the city Police Department. No gives two craps that this fire fighter becomes a probationary officer for fire company 10 of the New York City Fire Department, and dies because the date is February 25th, 2000, not 09/11/2001.

Joey Gamache instead of asking for more money, or backing out of the fight, and filing a breech of lawsuit monday morning says " I am joey Gamache, I am a warrior, I will win the fight anyways ". See the court deposition.

The next night at the at the Garden the fight card goes ahead despite controversy. The date is now Saturday February 26th, 2000. It is snowing outside the arena.

In Arturo Gatti's dressing room, HBO unofficially weighs Arturo Gatti at 161 pounds on a bathroom scale. See the court deposition. We do not know if this weight is with clothing, or if this weight is naked. In the other dressing room, Joey Gamache is weighed by HBO at 145 pounds. See the court deposition. The mood in Joey Gamache dressing room is that of a man being sent out to his execution. We know this because people like Thomas Hauser, and Jack Hirsch were there, and told us this. Joey Gamache again weighs himself at 147 pounds, and 9 ounce after having all his boxing gear on, and being warmed up. We don't know if this is HBO's scale, or if this is on a personal scale. We know this number because again people like Jack Hirsch, and Thomas Hauser told us. The official HBO weigh in numbers are in the court deposition.

Joey Gamache, and Arturo Gatti go to the ring. Joey Gamache sees Gatti, is alarmed, and thinks that he is fighting Joe Gatti. Again this is in the court deposition. Joey Gamache is smashed into retirement in less then 5 minutes. Joey Gamache is injured in the bout, and after about 10 minutes, Gamache recouperates from the knock out. Gamache refuses medical attention, and demands to walk out of the ring. Gamache is taken to the hospital.

A public outcry is launched against Arturo Gatti, and the New York State Athletic Commission. No one really cares that 4 fight fans looking to get a picture, and an autograph were at the weigh in. No one really cares that 3 of these fight fans bought tickets, and the other one went home to play with himself because a snow storm was forecasted.

In the aftermath of this Controversy, Gamache, and his handlers announce their intentions to file legal action. The four jackoffs are looking at a videotape they took at the weigh in, and believe that the official garden scale was tampered with. They are also looking at the numbers of Joey Gamache pre weigh in, weigh in, and the night of the fight. These 4 fight fans are raising their eyebrows calling BS. They believe that when Gamache's weight was called officially at 140 1/4 pounds that Gamache was actually a lightweight, and the scale was tampered with. Forget that any video footage exists here we are purely looking at the numbers.

Joey Gamache said he knew that Arturo Gatti put on Significant Weight Between the weigh in and the fight. Joey Gamache said so in his court deposition.

In the four hours between his physical, and the official weigh, How does Joey Gamache not shed, or gain a single ounce walking around between the Commission Office, The Garden, and the Hotel?

I can not maintain my weight doing walking, and not intaking anything. How does Joey Gamache maintain a weight of 140 1/4 during this time period which includes walking around in the cold of February, and possibly one trip to the bathroom?

If Joey Gamache is 140 1/4 pounds as he claims, then why would someone only rehydrate themself 4 3/4 pounds if they know full well that there opponent is going to blow up big?

Could Joey Gamache actually have been a lightweight?

The four jackoffs believe that Gamache would have put on more then 4 3/4 pounds if he was in fact 140 1/4.

The 4 jackoffs point to the weigh of 137 before the scales were recalibrated, or as they claim tampered with, and say if Gamache rehydrated from 137 to 145 pounds, then 8 pounds of rehydration is more believeable for a man who was fighting at welterweight catch weight in his previous fight, then 4 3/4.

The fact that 3 of the four jackoffs, a boxer, an attorney, a judge, and a commissioner die, and another jackoff is injured is irrelevant at this point, and at the point of present day 2015. Any additional details significant, or not do not matter.

saintpat, we may never know the answers to these questions which makes getting to the next step impossible. Now do you understand the questions on the table. Does that sound a little more reasonable? To get to the next step I got to reasonably be able to say okay may be this guy was a lightweight. Any detail after this is irrelavent.

So basically the question is do you think Gamache could have been a lightweight at the scale? Do you think he could only reasonably rehydrate himself 4 3/4 pounds?

[boxingnut712]

I still don't understand -- did you not just say (1) Szoke did not attend the fight because there was a storm coming, (2) Szoke could not get into the dressing room of a fight that he did not attend, and (3) he claims Gamache weighed himself twice in the dressing room, etc. -- but according to both of the above, he wasn't there.

You say he seems like a nice guy. To me, he sounds like a guy who sees black helicopters. A lot of his claims (or your claims of what he claims) don't add up ... as pointed out above, or the claim that Gatti was supposed to testify in the trial two days after he died (July 11, 2009) but the trial happened in 2010 (verdict in April). Can you or Szoke substantiate the idea that he was supposed to testify two days later, or is that just what this guy says? For that matter, is he the only source for the claim that these now-dead firefighters were actually at the weigh-in? Were they supposed to be deposed in the lawsuit, or did they die before it was filed?

Without a lot more answers, I have to say that I suspect this guy's wearing some tinfoil. If the mob wanted him dead, they wouldn't stop at a failed attempt to supposedly sabotage his car -- he'd be killed in a "burgulary attempt" or "mugging" or something.

If he really wants answers, he should start by posting his weigh-in video somewhere (Facebook or whatever) and go public with his claims.

CONTINUING ON, ( In chronilogical order ) :

So it is now March of 2000. 4 fight fans ( the 4 jackoffs ) are reading internet boxing columns, and scratching their heads. Accounts of what happened at the weigh in back in February of 2000 do not match exactly what they remember happening. The media claims Arturo Gatti violently got on, and right off the scale at the Garden. Other outlets say that both De La Hoya, and Gatti got on, and off the scale quickly, and that protests were ignored. Szoke claims Gatti was on that scale longer then when they weighed him for a fight with Carlos Baldomir, and that the media claims of Gatti getting on, and off the scale at the garden were not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2FmkpXIVQ4

Joey Gamache has left the hospital. Joey along with his manager are threating a lawsuit upon regulations based off the HBO unofficial weigh in, and claiming Gatti has not made weight. Gamache, and his manager further claim that they have evidence that team Gatti gave the commission advanced notice that they could not reach the target weight, and that the commission made sure the fight went ahead as planned anyways, however, this information was never presented in court.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jb22900.htm

http://nypost.com/2000/02/28/no-weig...should-happen/

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/17/sp...m-revenge.html

Meanwhile Oscar De La Hoya, and Arturo Gatti claim that they made weight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/09/sp...is-weight.html

The 4 fight fans don't know what to make of what is being said, but seeming they are the only 4 people on the planet earth defending team Gatti. These 4 fight fans in their quest to get a picture, and an autograph are certain they video recorded Tony Russo, and another man whom they could not identify tampering with the calibrations on the scale after Joey Gamache had first weighed 137 pounds. One of these 4 fight fans, Richard Szoke, writes a letter to Arturo Gatti's management, and contacts a sports memorablia agent that has workings with Gatti seeking to meet Arturo Gatti, and asking for autographs. Szoke said someone claiming to be Arturo Gatti's manager called him telling him that Gatti trained, at the Fernwood in the pocono mountains of Pennsylvania. Szoke said he believed otherwise. Szoke said he believed Gatti trained in Florida. Szoke said he went to the Fernwood all the time to play golf, and snowtube. Szoke said he never seen them at the resort, and never heard of him being at the athletic compound. Szoke said he never went to the athletic compound in Bushkill, PA, and would not have gone without an invite. Szoke said he never got together with Gatti, or anyone from his management but that he along with his friends, and some other people that he worked with got their autographs back in the mail from their office, and the sports memorabilia dealer.

Szoke said this prompted he, and his freinds to purchase, and look at dozens of video tapes of Gatti, and Gamache over the course of the next 9 to 10 months. Szoke said the only thing that he got out of watching all those tapes is that Gatti's second fight with Ivan Robinson was not anywhere near as close as it looked live in Atlantic City, and that Gamache Seemingly built this record of 55 wins fighting mostly opponents with a losing record. Szoke said Gamache had no business even getting into the same ring as Orzubek Nazarov, Julio Caesar Chavez, and Arturo Gatti. Szoke Believes that on that night in the Garden if Gamache had fought someone in shape like Kostya Tsyzu that Gamache would have went to his grave.

The New York Post released details of an investigation into the New York State Athletic Commission being a joke, and funding the New York State GOP. This here is an example.

http://nypost.com/2000/04/01/states-...own-for-count/

Claims were made that there were as many as 16 - 20 different commissioners a night with their salaries getting kicked back to the state GOP. There were claims that there were commissioners that were ghost names. Tony Russo came under heavy fire, and they were on the brink of firing him. Russo under pressure, and taking heat from the Gamache camp, temporarily had the weigh in's changed from the day before the fight back to the day of the fight about a week, and a half before Gatti's next fight in New York which led to Russo either quitting, or being fired.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/20/sp...weigh-ins.html

[j.razor]

I do not know about youtube.com , or what ever is going on there. Who is the Illuminati? This is the additional information that I have:

Richard Szoke contends that Joey Gamache had invested his life savings into building a restaurant in his native Maine. A bank in Maine approved a loan combined with Gamache's savings for that restaurant. For some reason, or another the Bank pulled the loan on Gamache in which he was left near bankrupt, and facing a divorce.

Szoke claims that Joey Gamache's manager Johnny Bos, and the executive director of the New York State Athelic Commission Anthony Russo were friends, and had dealings together over the career of Tracy Harris Patterson whom Arturo Gatti beat to become famous. Szoke says that the scale was tampered with to weigh the fighters heavier then they actually were, and that when Gamache got onto the scale, and it read 140 1/4 pounds that he was actually a lightweight.

Szoke contends Gamache did this because he was broke as a joke,and even needed advance training expenses for the fight. Szoke believes Gamache knew that Gatti would put on a significant amount of weight following the weigh in, and what happened at the scale was all preorchestrated for a multi million dollar lawsuit when he moved to New York, and asked Lou DiBella for the Gatti fight.

Szoke also contends that the Mafia took a shot at him, and they are the ones responsible for killing Michael Coyle, Arturo Gatti, Edwin Harper, and Jack Rosario.

Szoke says he waited until all the people on top of the New York State Athletic Commission either resigned, were fired, or there terms expired before sending them any evidence in 2005. Szoke claims that his attempts to contact Gatti directly failed.

After sending evidence to the Commission, Attorney Generals office, and the FBI in Newark in 2005, Szoke said that he thinks all anyone was interested in was making the whole thing go away, and that his footage would have given both Arturo Gatti, and Paul Ingle retalliation lawsuits against the New York State Athletic Commission, and others.

Szoke further said, The New York State Athletic Commission banned, or blacklisted Joey Gamache's manager Johnny Bos, but he was not sure if it was before, or he after speaking to their legal department headed by a guy named Hugo Pinta, and sending them evidence.


I appreciate all, and any replies, but I still really have not gotten a straight answer yes, or no answer on the actual question as to whether Gamache could have sweat down from around 160 to make 141, and then only rehydrated a mere 4 3/4 pounds.

I believe Gamache could sweat it down, but it is the rehydration number that I am looking at that puts me in agreement that Gamache had to be a lightweight. I think everyone looked at Gatti's size, and how he pummeled Gamache into retirement that no one was really looking at any of Gamache's numbers. I am not sure why Gamache is weighing himself 3 times after his physical, and before the weigh in, and another two times before getting into the ring

Gamache himself said the last couple of pounds were a killer. A gallon of water weighs 7 Lbs, and the guy had to eat something leading into the fight 29 - 30 hours later.


The only thing else that I could get from Szoke is that he thought his car was rigged to kill him with carbon monoxide poisoning through his cars heating system, and that 14 days earlier he had $2000 dollars worth of work done which included a new battery, tires, spark plugs, an antifreeze flush, front end ailigment, brakes, rotors, and a state inspection. Nothing was wrong his exhaust, or heating system. Szoke is convinced the mafia was, and maybe still is trying to kill him.

Depends..is that 4Lbs of iv hydrating? Eat some red meat & rice should be able to get at least 8Lbs. I also think you can rehydrate close to your natural weight whatever it may be & if that's all they can hydrate (19 losing & gaining only about 5) then that athlete should not playing with the their weight.