Comments Thread For: PBC on ESPN Card Draws in Ratings Average of 428K

[Dean_Razorback]

i watched the fight, thought it was good. alexander decided to go toe to toe instead of clinching like a maniac. sucks more people didn't see it. and it's sad that an advisor has more fans than actual boxers, like quillin or devon for example

[bigdunny1]

The Big Dunn I watch boxing that interests me period regardless of what network it is on. The problem is PBC more often then not has featured too many bad mismatches and bad fights that should never headline a card. It's not just casual fans that want nothing to do with PBC it's a huge amount of hardcore boxing fans, writers, analysis that have criticized the product PBC is putting out. I said from day one Haymon should of started PBC with less cards less networks and jam packed those shows with great fights from top to bottom. He's got a huge roster of fighters and has the say on who, where, when these guys fight. You do that and you established your brand then later expand it. Instead he went the other route watered down and damaged his own brand with spreading out all these fights over too many networks with too many bad fights to the point now when people bring up PBC it's to clown it. There is a huge NEGATIVE stigma now attached to PBC because of how he handled it.

For example if a casual fans that stumble on a random PBC fight for the first time and see a horrible show with fans booing they change the channel and they don't tune in next time when there is a real good PBC fight on another network. They say I saw PBC once and it's a crap product so I'm going to avoid it next time. Fans booing in a lot of these fights because you got a crappy card and headliner so nobody pays to go and you stuck with a half empty arena so are forced to give away free tickets to fill the seats. If you get free tickets to something you didn't pay or care about you will be quick to boo. You put on fewer fights go with QUALITY over QUANTITY and more fans actual buy the tickets. More real boxing fans at these fights who are more likely to cheer then boo. Better fights on TV so when a random fan see's PBC he thinks high quality fights so next time he hears about a PBC fight he is more likely to checks it out.

[The Big Dunn]

I'm a big fan of hip hop music. If I don't go out and listen to every single artist or like every style, does it mean I'm not a true fan?

I tune in to what interests me and for the most part, most of what haymon is putting out doesn't interest me. His focus is on quantity over quality. Not to mention his cards are scattered over a plethora of networks, dates and times. It's too unorganized.

I didn't question whether you were a true fan or not so please don't divert to something petty. A true fan experiences everything and then makes a decision. You, respectfully, seem to have made your decision before trying it.

No one expects you to like every fighter. I am not talking about individual fighters, I am asking about the sport as a whole.

It just seems that you do not watch the sport outside of one network on one night. I just do not understand how a fan limits their access to the sport like that.

Your criticisms taken-why does organization matter? As a fan of the sport, all that matters is what happens in the ring, right?

Going back to your hip hop example, It would be crazy to judge the quality of an artist music based on what they wear or how the video is. That's what seems to be happening hear.

In a way I get it. I am a Cowboys fan, not much of a pro football fan. On the flip side, I am a huge boxing, basketball and college football fan so I watch everything I can.

As a fan, I would think love of the sport outweighs the hate for the individuals in it.I may hate ODH but I watch the fights he puts on. I may not like Arum, but I watch the fights he puts on.

I don't see that with you and others so I ask.

[The Big Dunn]

The Big Dunn I watch boxing that interests me period regardless of what network it is on. The problem is PBC more often then not has featured too many bad mismatches and bad fights that should never headline a card. It's not just casual fans that want nothing to do with PBC it's a huge amount of hardcore boxing fans, writers, analysis that have criticized the product PBC is putting out. I said from day one Haymon should of started PBC with less cards less networks and jam packed those shows with great fights from top to bottom. He's got a huge roster of fighters and has the say on who, where, when these guys fight. You do that and you established your brand then later expand it. Instead he went the other route watered down and damaged his own brand with spreading out all these fights over too many networks with too many bad fights to the point now when people bring up PBC it's to clown it. There is a huge NEGATIVE stigma now attached to PBC because of how he handled it.

For example if a casual fans that stumble on a random PBC fight for the first time and see a horrible show with fans booing they change the channel and they don't tune in next time when there is a real good PBC fight on another network. They say I saw PBC once and it's a crap product so I'm going to avoid it next time. Fans booing in a lot of these fights because you got a crappy card and headliner so nobody pays to go and you stuck with a half empty arena so are forced to give away free tickets to fill the seats. If you get free tickets to something you didn't pay or care about you will be quick to boo. You put on fewer fights go with QUALITY over QUANTITY and more fans actual buy the tickets. More real boxing fans at these fights who are more likely to cheer then boo. Better fights on TV so when a random fan see's PBC he thinks high quality fights so next time he hears about a PBC fight he is more likely to checks it out.

"Boxing that interests me"-that is a very weird statement. What do you mean-fighters that interest you? Please explain.

Fans booing and free seats have no bearing on you watching the card dude. You can have any opinion you want on the business model. It just doesn't seem relevant to watching the fights.

At the point the bell rings, the business model, ring girls, production music doesn't matter.

You keep telling me your opinion of how you think casual fans and other people see PBC. fine, that isn't what I am asking you about. I am asking about you as a "hardcore fan".

why does appeal to the casual fan base drive your enjoyment or willingness to watch?

Once you explain what "boxing that interest me" me means, I can better understand your point. Is that fighters that you like, fighters that you know?

I am a fan that watches a lot of fights when I do not know who the fighters are. That way I get to learn about up and comers and I get to see guys develop and grow. This is the essence of the sport and what I think differentiates us from casual fans.

when I see a hardcore fan avoid the essence of the sport, I ask why.

Can you understand my position?

[bigdunny1]

So in other words you dont know anything but will pretend you do. Thats all you needed to say.

No, I don't know the exact amount PBC has lost already but anyone with a brain can see they are operating at a loss on a fight by fight basis. To debate that fact is pure ignorance. To this point I don't know how anyone can say PBC has been anything but a failure. Whether you want to talk about all the millions they are losing and the bad tv ratings there is no bench mark where you can say this is a success. Now if you want to say it's not over yet and something will change this around. OK fair enough. My only question is the trend is heading the other way not up so what is the magical change that you envision that is going to turn this all around and get fans on board? What is the game changer that nobody sees coming? PBC didn't start small spending money slowly giving them a long time to build this thing up. They came out guns blazing on too many networks spending too much money so they have a short window to make this work before they dig too deep a hole in money lost. And spending all that money to get on ESPN only to see more fans rather watch WNBA on ESPN2 is not a good sign.

[Deevel916]

No, I don't know the exact amount PBC has lost already but anyone with a brain can see they are operating at a loss on a fight by fight basis. To debate that fact is pure ignorance. To this point I don't know how anyone can say PBC has been anything but a failure. Whether you want to talk about all the millions they are losing and the bad tv ratings there is no bench mark where you can say this is a success. Now if you want to say it's not over yet and something will change this around. OK fair enough. My only question is the trend is heading the other way not up so what is the magical change that you envision that is going to turn this all around and get fans on board? What is the game changer that nobody sees coming? PBC didn't start small spending money slowly giving them a long time to build this thing up. They came out guns blazing on too many networks spending too much money so they have a short window to make this work before they dig too deep a hole in money lost. And spending all that money to get on ESPN only to see more fans rather watch WNBA on ESPN2 is not a good sign.

PBC's biggest problem is that they lack any real stars that will attract the casual fanbase.

Right now Wilder is probably the biggest star they have and yet he hasnt even achieved star status yet. Haymon could have done a better job with his other up and coming stars like Garcia, Thurman and Khan. I have no doubt that had they been on HBO or the old Showtime, they would have had more notoriety by now.

You have a guy like GGG or Cotto or Canelo who each alone are bigger stars than all of Haymon's top guys combined!

[bigdunny1]

"Boxing that interests me"-that is a very weird statement. What do you mean-fighters that interest you? Please explain.

Fans booing and free seats have no bearing on you watching the card dude. You can have any opinion you want on the business model. It just doesn't seem relevant to watching the fights.

At the point the bell rings, the business model, ring girls, production music doesn't matter.

You keep telling me your opinion of how you think casual fans and other people see PBC. fine, that isn't what I am asking you about. I am asking about you as a "hardcore fan".

why does appeal to the casual fan base drive your enjoyment or willingness to watch?

Once you explain what "boxing that interest me" me means, I can better understand your point. Is that fighters that you like, fighters that you know?

I am a fan that watches a lot of fights when I do not know who the fighters are. That way I get to learn about up and comers and I get to see guys develop and grow. This is the essence of the sport and what I think differentiates us from casual fans.

when I see a hardcore fan avoid the essence of the sport, I ask why.

Can you understand my position?

Fights that interest me are fights that are either compelling, competitive on paper, fights I and fans have been asking for or we can just some it up as relevant. Too often PBC has irrelevant fights. As for crowd booing and free tickets ect I never said that effects me watching a fight because it doesn't. It does however have an impact on why PBC from a business standpoint is struggling and not catching on with casual fans. And that was what I was speaking to.

[The Big Dunn]

Fights that interest me are fights that are either compelling, competitive on paper, fights I and fans have been asking for or we can just some it up as relevant. Too often PBC has irrelevant fights. As for crowd booing and free tickets ect I never said that effects me watching a fight because it doesn't. It does however have an impact on why PBC from a business standpoint is struggling and not catching on with casual fans. And that was what I was speaking to.

Fights that interest me are fights that are either compelling, competitive on paper, fights I and fans have been asking for or we can just some it up as relevant.

OK, now I understand. Respectfully, this is why I am asking about you being a fan. A miniscule amount of fights fit the criteria above. I would say 95% of fights fail to meet this criteria.

-Compelling isn't something that can be determined before the fight, with all due respect.

-Competitive on paper-if you do not know anything about 1 or both fighters, respectfully, you can't determine f the fight is competitive on paper. Continually shutting yourself off from minor cards means you never really know if a fight meets this criteria.

-fights I have been asking for/relevance-I would argue 95% of fights are those you are not asking for. This criteria seems limited to only the big names (otherwise why would you ask for them to fight guys). With respect to PBC there is some bias because you will watch fights that you didn't ask for on HBO but not on PBC.

Again, I appreciate the response. You can't watch every televised fight. I just think as hardcore fans it helps to support all levels of fighters, not just those at the top. I like to watch a fighter grow, develop and change as his career unfolds, not just when he starts getting HBO or Showtime televised fights.

[The Big Dunn]

PBC's biggest problem is that they lack any real stars that will attract the casual fanbase.

Right now Wilder is probably the biggest star they have and yet he hasnt even achieved star status yet. Haymon could have done a better job with his other up and coming stars like Garcia, Thurman and Khan. I have no doubt that had they been on HBO or the old Showtime, they would have had more notoriety by now.

You have a guy like GGG or Cotto or Canelo who each alone are bigger stars than all of Haymon's top guys combined!

You've said this before. I understand that stars make fights bigger and the atmosphere better. That said, Do you like boxing or do you like watching stars fight?

Does the notoriety of the people fighting always matter to you?

DO you need to know who is fighting to watch a card?

[Deevel916]

You've said this before. I understand that stars make fights bigger and the atmosphere better. That said, Do you like boxing or do you like watching stars fight?

Does the notoriety of the people fighting always matter to you?

DO you need to know who is fighting to watch a card?

Ummm YES! If it's 2 guys who are known to pus*yfoot around the ring while playing "tag you're it", i'm not tuning in. That style does absolutely nothing for me besides help with insomnia.