Was Rocky Marciano an ATG?

[juggernaut666]

I'm not blowing up the importance of "a few", there was one in particular and virtually everyone who I would rank ahead of Marciano had more than he did, including Henry Armstrong who had more than 20.

In Tyson's case, in his prime he lost to Buster Douglas. He didn't 'get caught', he was systematically broken down and knocked out in his prime by arguably the worst undisputed heavyweight champion in the modern era of boxing. Tyson's legacy as a fighter is almost exclusively built on the big play. His knockouts were so insanely beautiful that we tend to forget who exactly was getting knocked out which, as I tried to say before, is what we do to Marciano with his record. We see this big and shiny undefeated record and that's enough. Had he stuck around, I don't think Marciano would have went through Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson still undefeated and even if he had beaten Douglas and not gone to prison, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and a few others were on their way for Tyson.

The two had comparable opposition at their best - primarily less than average save for some old greats who stuck around too long - had similar results and, at least for me, rank very near one another historically, with the large determining factor being that Marciano was never beaten by one of those less than average opponents and certainly not destroyed by one during his prime.

If you think there were 100 better fighters than Marciano, that's fine, it's your opinion I disagree with you. But to talk about courage and challenges in regards to him is something different. Marciano was no cutey, he blocked punches with his face and his ribs. He was one of the greatest brawling fighters in my opinion and that was what was spectacular about him. Those type of fighters don't do what he did for the most part. He won fights because of his heart, his chin and a big punch. He was trying to be the last man standing and he was the last man standing every time he fought.

However Marciano didnt have to fight 6'3 super heavyweights,beating the 40's Moore of sub 200 pounds at around 5'8 is no comparison to the kind of fighters Tyson had.....Marciano is an all time great soley on his undeafetted record as Tyson is on youngest HW champ ever.

[2shameless]

However Marciano didnt have to fight 6'3 super heavyweights,beating the 40's Moore of sub 200 pounds at around 5'8 is no comparison to the kind of fighters Tyson had.....Marciano is an all time great soley on his undeafetted record as Tyson is on youngest HW champ ever.

Marciano beat a 38 year old more less than 5 months after Archie beat the number 1 HW contender, 6'3", 210 lb Nino Valdez. Moore was 5'11", not "around 5'8." Carry on.

[juggernaut666]

Marciano beat a 38 year old more less than 5 months after Archie beat the number 1 HW contender, 6'3", 210 lb Nino Valdez. Moore was 5'11", not "around 5'8." Carry on.

Whatever the point is Tyson fought young HW's with size ,Rocky did not!Imagine Tyson struggling with lastarza or 190 pound Moore?NOPE!

[AddiX]

He's an ATG for his time. There's no doubt about that. If you want to scale back his ATG status based on the times competition level I have no problem with that.

IMO Vitali & Wlad will have the same kind of asterik in there careers. Great fighters but the competition to prove they were truly amongst the top of the ATG list just wasn't there.

Not there fault, but it is what it is. Vitali IMO could of been one if the best at any time period.

[Chrismart]

Yes he is :ANYWORD:

[elfag]

Retired at 32. Meanwhile Mayweather, who will be 39 next spring, is being pressed to keep fighting.

Marciano saw that young talented floyd patterson and played duck duck goose.

[Bram]

However Marciano didnt have to fight 6'3 super heavyweights,beating the 40's Moore of sub 200 pounds at around 5'8 is no comparison to the kind of fighters Tyson had.....Marciano is an all time great soley on his undeafetted record as Tyson is on youngest HW champ ever.

Do we give Joe Louis more credit because he beat Primo Carnera and Buddy Baer? Had he not fought those two would you really look at him any differently than you do now? You can if you like, but I'm not about to give Tyson a nod because he came from an era which produced bigger guys like Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Buster Douglas and the great Mitch Blood Green. Fighters (like humans in general) have gotten bigger throughout the years, just like training methods have changed. It is an accepted difference between eras imo and, of course, Mike Tyson had no great super heavyweight to deal with in his prime years, they came later.

[juggernaut666]

Retired at 32. Meanwhile Mayweather, who will be 39 next spring, is being pressed to keep fighting.

Marciano saw that young talented floyd patterson and played duck duck goose.

Floyd wasnt even on the map,and he was protected by Cus Damato .That fight would have never took off by the time Marciano retired ...if he came back after in a few years is another story.

[juggernaut666]

Do we give Joe Louis more credit because he beat Primo Carnera and Buddy Baer? Had he not fought those two would you really look at him any differently than you do now? You can if you like, but I'm not about to give Tyson a nod because he came from an era which produced bigger guys like Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Buster Douglas and the great Mitch Blood Green. Fighters (like humans in general) have gotten bigger throughout the years, just like training methods have changed. It is an accepted difference between eras imo and, of course, Mike Tyson had no great super heavyweight to deal with in his prime years, they came later.

The differance is Tyson fought technical fighters,Carnera was a stiff,and Baer was a brawler.Ruddock was 6'3 240 i would call that a super HW that the likes of Marciano would never be favored against ,im not even sure why Louis is in the topic since we are talking Marciano ? You can disect post prison Tyson but thats irrelevant.Not sure what Marciano opposition vs Tysons would give him more credibility ,because it doesnt .

[BigAlexSand]

Retired at 32. Meanwhile Mayweather, who will be 39 next spring, is being pressed to keep fighting.

Marciano saw that young talented floyd patterson and played duck duck goose.

Marciano would have KO'ed Patterson, I can say that with no other question in my mind.