Doug Fischer tells me why he puts PAC n Hopkins over money this era and all time

[Jc8804]

I emailed Doug last week surprised he replied back


This is my email and his reply...enjoy, and debate



ATG RANKINGS

Me

Why do always rate PAC over mayweather when doing your lists? PAC is a ATG and an ambassador to the sport but mayweather has the edge in to many categories to list PAC over him…also that fighter of the decade accolade is pure crap considering PAC lost to a past prime morales and a draw with jmm…he let Marquez back in the fight by not adjusting and being on dimensional. Mayweather went undefeated and fought better versions of hatton and DLH….also mayweather has over twice as many title fight wins, far more title defenses, defeated more champions and still took no L….also mayweather is more skilled and on par with PAC on athletic gifts…you can’t measure the mind so people always look at aesthetic things…mayweather also better at making adjustments mid fight….no need for so many fight series if you win clearly…both are ATG but in my book mayweather is the best of this era…after may 2nd that has been made crystal clear. – OkDarrien


Dougie's reply

You can certainly make an argument that Mayweather is the best of this era, and thus ahead of Pacquiao on any sort of all-time pound for pound list. I guess it all depends on your criteria. Just to be clear, though, the recent list posted in this column (in Friday’s mailbag) simply named Pacquiao the fighter of the 2000s (so it didn’t factor in anything from the 1990s or 2010s).

I could have easily gone with Mayweather or Bernard Hopkins as the fighter of the 2000s. Like I said, it comes down to what you value in a fighter’s accomplishments. All three secured their eventual hall-of-fame enshrinements during the last decade. In terms of their entire careers, I consider Hopkins to be an all-time great and I rate him over both Mayweather and Pacquiao, but I have no problem with anyone who thinks that Floyd and Pac are also ATGs (or better fighters/legacies than B-Hop).

Anyway, I slightly favored the quality of Pacquiao’s opposition over those that Mayweather and Hopkins faced from 2000 through 2009. Did he dominate everyone he fought? Nope. Is he as good a boxer/technician as Floyd or Bernard? Nope. But he was fiercely competitive with everyone he fought, including Marquez and Morales (who was past his prime but still dangerous and still highly rated), and he also made for many memorable fights. Pacquiao gets a lot of points from me because he dominated Marco Antonio Barrera when the Mexican master was near the top of most pound-for-pound lists and then took on one of the most avoided fighters of the late 1990s/early 2000s in JMM. Pacquiao faced Marquez when the counter-punching technician was in his prime and they fought at Marquez’s prime weight class: featherweight. The two victories over Barrera, the trilogy with Morales, the draw and split decision over JMM, the chilling KO of Hatton and stoppage of Cotto held a lot of weight with me (not to mention his winning titles and champion recognition at 122, 126, 130, 135, 140 and 147 pounds).

By the way, just because Mayweather is undefeated doesn’t mean he absolutely dominated everyone he faced. He arguably lost to Jose Luis Castillo in 2002 and he struggled with Zab Judah and the 2007 version of De La Hoya.

Nah . Oscar had bigger fish to fry in his prime.
Shane did as well. He had bigger opportunities.
Floyd didnt beg manny.

He created road blocks.
Dont get one sided because your racist. .
At some point you gotta think 10 misses is a pattern.

Oscar fought the best at their best. His resume is undeniable.

[Jc8804]

Nah . Oscar had bigger fish to fry in his prime.
Shane did as well. He had bigger opportunities.
Floyd didnt beg manny.

He created road blocks.
Dont get one sided because your racist. .
At some point you gotta think 10 misses is a pattern.

Oscar fought the best at their best. His resume is undeniable.

[Calabis]

judah was coming off a loss, dlh was at the tail end of his career (he even admitted he had nothing left in that fight), floyd lost to castillo easily (i scored it 8-4...castillo out-landed and outworked floyd).

manny accomplished way more than floyd from 2000-2009 which is what doug is talking about. also marquez was in his absolute prime when manny fought him twice. NAME ONE LEGIT FUTURE HOF'ER AND ATG THAT FLOYD FOUGHT IN THEIR PRIME?????? hahahahahahahaha give me a break. again, it's not manny's fault that floyd took a "vacation" (avoiding the top threats) during the last years of the decade.

Ok moron lets nit pick

Lost to a healthy Morales

Morales off a loss and moved back down weight and looked like a skeleton

Marquez...not one clear decisive win and eventually put to sleep

Beat a washed up DLH after Floyd, made him come back down to 147...a weight he hadn't been at in years

Beat a washed up Hatton who wpuld have been KO'd by Lazcano if not for ref...couldnt even beat sparring partners already lost to Floyd

Mosley refused to fight him after DLH, waited til he lost to Mayweather and then washed up and a draw against Mora

Cotto brings him down to 145...I dont care good win

Margarito...out of boxing for a year, couldnt even beat some no name in Mexico, brought down to150...washed up and off a loss, suspension and draw lol

David Diaz...lol some didnt have him beating a old ass Morales....Algeri 2.0.

We cann do this all day

[therealpugilist]

i absolutely agree with doug here. pacquiao is without a doubt the BEST fighter of the 2000s just liek roy was the best fighter in the 90s, etc.

who accomplished more than manny in the 2000s?? who was more exciting and in more dramatic, upset win, fight of the year type fights???? who ended the decade stronger????? it definitely wasn't floyd or hopkins.

it's not manny's fault that floyd decided to take a "vacation" at the last years of the decade, and that hopkins didn't nearly accomplish as much as manny did (or had better wins).

Exciting doesn't equate to best

Do you think mayweather would have lost to that morales @ 130...never beat marquez clean once....he drew with a guy he kd 3 times so that means he got outboxed for long stretches


Roy Jones was fighter of the decade because of dominance not exciting fights


Mayweather was more dominant...more title defenses and beat all their common opponents first...clearly beat JMM


Mayweather is a better overall fighter n went undefeated.... That's a no brainer to me...the only close fight he had he clearly won a rematch

Chico corrales n chicanito Hernandez were more dangerous at 130 than a washed up Barrera and morales...jmm was elite but that fight was close

Other than jlc mayweather beat everyone else 8-4 or worse or stopped them



Struggling n being exciting doesn't make you the best

[Divine Hammer]

What was Oscar when he fought PAC? @ 147 weight drained and in worse condition than all previous fights

Hatton started at 140...Floyd @130

Hatton was naturally bigger weight was never an issue for them to fight


Floyd was in his 4th division at 147 so he didn't have any type of size advantage n hadn't filled out there yet

pac was moving up two weight classes for the first time in his career (only had one fight at lightweight) when he fought oscar. oscar tried to cherry pick the much smaller pac. all of the media was saying manny was a complete underdog and didn't stand a chance too.

and floyd is naturally bigger than hatton easily. floyd is taller, has a longer reach, more accustomed to fighting at 147, he definitely weighs more on fight night then we're lead to believe.

[Calabis]

Nah . Oscar had bigger fish to fry in his prime.
Shane did as well. He had bigger opportunities.
Floyd didnt beg manny.

He created road blocks.
Dont get one sided because your racist. .
At some point you gotta think 10 misses is a pattern.

Oscar fought the best at their best. His resume is undeniable.

Oscar nor Mosley fought Floyd, because he was to dangerous and didnt command money...kinda like GGG, big names know he is not worth the risk...until recently.

Also roadblocks? U mean Freddie saying it was our fault was a Floyd roadblock...ok got it....all their requests were very resonable ala for every lb over 147 you pay 10 mil.

Oscar resume should not be questioned...I agree there.

[therealpugilist]

judah was coming off a loss, dlh was at the tail end of his career (he even admitted he had nothing left in that fight), floyd lost to castillo easily (i scored it 8-4...castillo out-landed and outworked floyd).

manny accomplished way more than floyd from 2000-2009 which is what doug is talking about. also marquez was in his absolute prime when manny fought him twice. NAME ONE LEGIT FUTURE HOF'ER AND ATG THAT FLOYD FOUGHT IN THEIR PRIME?????? hahahahahahahaha give me a break. again, it's not manny's fault that floyd took a "vacation" (avoiding the top threats) during the last years of the decade.

PAC never beat a prime ATG


Its rare that two greats fight in their prime that's why its a big deal


Losing to a past prime great hurt his case...that morales gets his ears boxed off by pbf @ 130....people try to inflate MAB n morales to pump up PAC


Past 126 morales n Barrera was past prime n traded titles between each other

None of them jumped to 130 until corrales, freitas, el cepillo, n pbf moved up


They were not great @ those weights....their best weight was 122

[Divine Hammer]

Ok moron lets nit pick

Lost to a healthy Morales

Morales off a loss and moved back down weight and looked like a skeleton

Marquez...not one clear decisive win and eventually put to sleep

Beat a washed up DLH after Floyd, made him come back down to 147...a weight he hadn't been at in years

Beat a washed up Hatton who wpuld have been KO'd by Lazcano if not for ref...couldnt even beat sparring partners already lost to Floyd

Mosley refused to fight him after DLH, waited til he lost to Mayweather and then washed up and a draw against Mora

Cotto brings him down to 145...I dont care good win

Margarito...out of boxing for a year, couldnt even beat some no name in Mexico, brought down to150...washed up and off a loss, suspension and draw lol

David Diaz...lol some didnt have him beating a old ass Morales....Algeri 2.0.

We cann do this all day

- morales always looked like a skeleton at weigh-ins u dunce hahahahahahaha. the first fight manny was MOVING UP TO 130 for teh first time, and manny beat morales LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER LOSING TO HIM.

- manny should have won the first fight against marquez but was screwed over by one of the judges (incorrectly scored first round 10-7 instead of 10-6). and the 2nd fight was also very close but manny edged it out with the knockdown. plus this was a PRIME MARQUEZ AT HIS PRIME WEIGHTCLASSES. again, name me ONE FUTURE HOF'ER/ATG THAT FLOYD FOUGHT IN THEIR PRIME.

- manny had to move UP TWO WEIGHT CLASSES FOR THE FIRST TIME TO FIGHT DELA HOYA. manny was supposed to be a cherry pick by oscar (who was avoided margarito). all of the media said manny had no chance and he was a complete huge underdog in that fight.

- cotto was ranked top ten p4p and ranked #2 welterweight, WBO champ, and again people were saying that cotto would still BE TOO STRONG AND TOO BIG DESPITE THE CATCHWEIGHT. plus manny was fighting for only the second time at welterweight. and guess what ur hero floyd has no problem with catchweights either (had catch weight for canelo at 152).

- margarito was almost 20 lbs bigger than manny on fight night, and MUCH TALLER, even though he was past his prime he still was dangerous for the much smaller manny. margarito still had the power to hurt manny (almost scored a knockdown against manny via body shot). get a clue.

- and david diaz was world champ. i thought his fight with morales was close. but it just shows how atg morales is. did a washed up very bloated old morales not give a prime danny garcia all he could handle in the first fight?????? did he not give maidana one of the toughest fights of his career???? hahahahhahahahahaha AGAIN, GET A CLUE!!!!

[jayjames616]

In all seriousness, if you try to make some argument for any fighter being better than Floyd in this era you have a clear bias against Floyd. No fighter in this era has the combination of skill, accomplishments and impact on the sport to match Floyd. Manny and Hopkins are GREAT but Floyd is a notch above them.

[Divine Hammer]

PAC never beat a prime ATG


Its rare that two greats fight in their prime that's why its a big deal


Losing to a past prime great hurt his case...that morales gets his ears boxed off by pbf @ 130....people try to inflate MAB n morales to pump up PAC


Past 126 morales n Barrera was past prime n traded titles between each other

None of them jumped to 130 until corrales, freitas, el cepillo, n pbf moved up


They were not great @ those weights....their best weight was 122

manny beat a prime marquez at his prime weightclass. yes it was a very close fight, but manny clearly edged out with the win by scoring the KD. pac also should have won the first fight but was screwed over. also barrera wasn't too far from his prime, still very dangerous and at the ABSOLUTE height of his career.

also manny is not going around calling himself TBE!! better than ali, robinson etc.!!! hahahahaha give me a break. floyd will never be greater than ali, robinson, leonard, duran, hagler, louis, etc. etc. because he has never beaten ONE PRIME HOF'ER (never even fought a legit prime hof'er). floyd is the biggest overrated fighter of this era.