Cassius Clinch...........

[juggernaut666]

I think the Ali/Clay from Sonny Liston up to the layoff was the best HW in history.

He was still great after that, but he had much less mobility, which led to him needing to clinch more as (some)fighters were able to close the distance on him. Against fighters who he was clearly superior too, like the faded Floyd Patterson, he didnt need to clinch. Whereas WK clinches constantly in every fight, often against opponents who he shouldnt need to be clinching against.

Based on what ?I'll just skip to his last 60's opponent who ithink was Zorra Folley another out of prime guy by 10 years at 200 pounds who wouldn't even be ranked in the top 50 today .If Wlad fought Alis opponents he wouldn't be able to clinch because he would practically knockeveryone out by round 2 or 3 on average.

[BOXEO _]

Cassius Clinch

[juggernaut666]

The quality of Alis opponents is far and away higher. I didn't not say Wlad was not a great Heavyweight, when he retires he will go down as one of the ATG heavies no doubt.

But he can be a very dull Heavyweight, his KO's come from his sledgehammer jab weaing people down for most of the fight and dropping his right hand or left hook when it is safe to do so.

No one remotley around 210 would survive in Alis era vs Wlad ,if your trying to sell me Norton and Lyle as better fighters i dont see it ,only one guy Ali fought could be a HW today and thats Foreman ,go watch Foreman vs Young and then tell me how bad Foreman beats up Wlad who would crush Young .Foreman himself a few days ago had said fighters all around are better today because they are smarter and stronger then when he was fighting .

[Tom Cruise]

Clinching is a part of boxing like it or not. I know this is a fan forum and fans think more of entertainment value but its taught in every gym I've been to.

I dont think its ever been built into a fighters style to the extent it is Klitschkos though. Not only as a defensive weapon, but an offensive one too, wearing out his opponent through the fight.

Most fighters who hold like he does get warnings and point deductions, Wlad rarely gets either because hes the a side.

I always say every Wlad fight that his opponents need to learn how to nullify his clinching, but at the same time it is an illegal tactic and you cant just give Wlad a free pass imo

[Tom Cruise]

Based on what ?I'll just skip to his last 60's opponent who ithink was Zorra Folley another out of prime guy by 10 years at 200 pounds who wouldn't even be ranked in the top 50 today .If Wlad fought Alis opponents he wouldn't be able to clinch because he would practically knockeveryone out by round 2 or 3 on average.

Whatever, this thread isnt about that.

[juggernaut666]

Whatever, this thread isnt about that.

Really whats it about then?

[Tom Cruise]

Really whats it about then?

Its not about how Alis era competes with this era directly. We already know you have spastic opinions about that.

We are talking about clinching. Specifically Wlad vs Ali clinching

[Joe Beamish]

We haven't had good heavyweights in a long time -- outside of the Klincschkoes. It's hard to beat a supertall guy who can jab and clinch, and who is as cautious and intelligent as they are. Otherwise, the whole division has sucked for decades.

Who from Ali's era would beat Vlad?
-- prime Holmes
-- prime Ali

Those two would win every time.

Others that I would bet on, but it could go either way
-- Foreman
-- Norton
-- Frazier

[Elroy1]

The quality of Alis opponents is far and away higher. I didn't not say Wlad was not a great Heavyweight, when he retires he will go down as one of the ATG heavies no doubt.

But he can be a very dull Heavyweight, his KO's come from his sledgehammer jab weaing people down for most of the fight and dropping his right hand or left hook when it is safe to do so.

You have got to be ****ing joking! Take a look at Bryant Jennings an absolute ripped 226lbs like no other in the day, same height as the champs of the 70's but much bigger and fitter. And we COMPLAIN about Wlad fighting this guy?

Nobody has fought more decent opponents than Wlad all up now.

Now era non-specific, you may say that the quality of Ali's opponents as boxers was high, but that's only if you consider sub 200 opponents as comparable to those of Wlads!

Ali's modern era hw record is 28-5!'

And this is before we consider how crappy the GOOD opponents were and how padded their records were compared with Wlads opponents.

All things considered it's probably fair to say that Wladimir's quality of opposition is approximately 100x better than what Ali had!

They don't even play in the same league.

Just LOOK at them!

[Joe Beamish]

Jennings is athletic but lacks boxing skills. The 70s guys would have stuck to their game plan and knocked him out.

Ali lost fights because he fought tremendous competition (and fought several years too long)