Comments Thread For: Photos: Klitschko, Jennings Face To Face in New York

[JasonBoxing]

Shouldn't there be a major difference between Lennox and Wlad.

I mean, one guy retired in his mid 30's after only 40-something fights, and Wlad has what - over 60 fights. Talk about the possibility of being shop worn.

Lewis retired at 38. In no mathematical universe is 38 'mid 30's. That's late 30's.

Lewis also took much more punishment than Wlad. Now weather that's a indication of Lewis fighting tougher opponents(general consensus) or Wlad being more careful. That's up for debate. But Lewis arguably took more punishment against:

Bruno/Mercer/Vitali alone than Wlad did from 2006-2014.

Lewis actually COULD have kept going as well. I 100% believe even a shot old slow faded Lennox if given time to prepare would have UD Prime Vitali. That was Lennox's mistake in retiring instead of whooping Prime Vitali's ass in a more dominant fashion. Of course after that than what? Lewis would be like 39 and he would have to go after Wlad. How would 39 year old Lewis do against 2007 Version of Wlad? I don't know.

Wlad have the luxury of not having a 'Wladimir' level opponent or a 'Vitali' level opponent around. He can stay forever.

If Young Lennox was around in 2012 instead of ***ing Mariuz Wach or David Haye. Let's see how well Wlad 'ages'.

Wladimir will 100% be retired by now if a Young Lewis was making his way up the ranks instead of god damn Tyson Fury.

[JasonBoxing]

Yeah and also because Malignaggi came close to be put in a coma last time he fought.

Froch is 37, it makes sense that he wants the right fights.

Wlad has to be applauded heavily for still having the desire to fight 3 times a year at his age. Absolutely.

Not really. That's because like I mentioned there isn't a Young Bowe or Lewis waiting.

Think about it like this:...........If Vitali and Wladimir never existed, how much longer can Lewis just keep going? His career from his late 30's to mid 40's would actually be EASIER than his Prime years or young years. He would just have to fight Williamson,Peter,Danny Williams, and Kevin Johnson or something. Lol. Maybe a 'third fight' against equally old Rahman. It would have been funny as hell. Old slow Lennox beating up old slower Rahman. Because that's what 'Young Wlad' did.

Wladimir's biggest challenge is actually Anthony Joshua(in terms of raw talent). And that's years down the line.

I respect Wlad as a human being and a great champion but let's be honest about his resume. It's only great because it's so immense.


David Tua could probably have seriously challenged Povetkin/Pulev/Haye/. I would actually not even be surprised if Tua beat all 3(prime vs prime).




Also Lennox's biggest mistake is not forcing a fight against 2000-2003 Wlad and brutally knocking him out. Those versions of Wlad would have been visiting the Solar System if he fought Lewis.

[LacedUp]

Not really. That's because like I mentioned there isn't a Young Bowe or Lewis waiting.

Think about it like this:...........If Vitali and Wladimir never existed, how much longer can Lewis just keep going? His career from his late 30's to mid 40's would actually be EASIER than his Prime years or young years. He would just have to fight Williamson,Peter,Danny Williams, and Kevin Johnson or something. Lol. Maybe a 'third fight' against equally old Rahman. It would have been funny as hell. Old slow Lennox beating up old slower Rahman. Because that's what 'Young Wlad' did.

Wladimir's biggest challenge is actually Anthony Joshua(in terms of raw talent). And that's years down the line.

I respect Wlad as a human being and a great champion but let's be honest about his resume. It's only great because it's so immense.


David Tua could probably have seriously challenged Povetkin/Pulev/Haye/. I would actually not even be surprised if Tua beat all 3(prime vs prime).




Also Lennox's biggest mistake is not forcing a fight against 2000-2003 Wlad and brutally knocking him out. Those versions of Wlad would have been visiting the Solar System if he fought Lewis.

Credit where credit is due.
It's not about having the ability to fight on, it's about having the desire. It's very hard to have fought and defended your belts for 8-9 years straight and still have the will to fight the next generation.

What you're saying with that post is that Lewis retired because Wlad and Vitali were around, and I don't agree with that.

[JasonBoxing]

Credit where credit is due.
It's not about having the ability to fight on, it's about having the desire. It's very hard to have fought and defended your belts for 8-9 years straight and still have the will to fight the next generation.

What you're saying with that post is that Lewis retired because Wlad and Vitali were around, and I don't agree with that.

He didn't retire because he was scared of the robotic twin. He already ****ed up the better one at a old age. He retired I believe in part because of this:


He knew he had to give 100% effort in beating up Prime Vitali or Young Wlad. 100% effort at age 38-40(the years he will need to fight at if he was to target K2) is too much for a old man who have already achieved everything.

But without K2.................he only have to give 50% effort to dominate for another 3-4 years.

He weight his options and that's that.


Wladimir right now know he only have to give maybe 70% effort in all his fights. If Young Lewis was waiting in 2016? Wlad know he will be fighting for his life at age 39. His life. There's a big difference between jabbing your way to a slow and boring win over Jennings and fighting so you don't hemorrhage in the ring in front of your new kid.


Will a 100% fully motivated old ass Lewis beat a Prime Vitali again? Yes. I actually think so. But Lewis couldn't get back to 100% so he retired. Fair game to him.

But if it wasn't Vitali? But say a Sam Peter? Lewis don't have to put in quite as much work and he knows that. It have nothing to do with being scared. It's just weighting the options.

Lennox felt like he achieved everything and is a bona fide top 10 Heavyweight ATG. Perhaps top 5 in some people's list.

He obviously didn't know that beating up Vitali again and Wlad would put him as arguably Goat.............

Lewis to me was actually very very close to GOAT HW level if fate was kinder to him. No other Heavy got that realistically close.


Fate:
If Wlad challenged Lewis instead of Sanders and Lewis took that fight 100% motivated. Wlad gets knocked out.
If Lewis than do a better job of preparing for Vitali. He destroys Vitali in more dominant fashion. No debate.

He just cleaned out the LAST generation and this one. He's #1 over Ali imo.
He was capable of doing it and the circumstances was right. No other Heavy had that set of circumstances so close to lining up perfectly.

[Boxing Goat]

Lewis retired at 38. In no mathematical universe is 38 'mid 30's. That's late 30's.

Lewis also took much more punishment than Wlad. Now weather that's a indication of Lewis fighting tougher opponents(general consensus) or Wlad being more careful. That's up for debate. But Lewis arguably took more punishment against:

Bruno/Mercer/Vitali alone than Wlad did from 2006-2014.

Lewis actually COULD have kept going as well. I 100% believe even a shot old slow faded Lennox if given time to prepare would have UD Prime Vitali. That was Lennox's mistake in retiring instead of whooping Prime Vitali's ass in a more dominant fashion. Of course after that than what? Lewis would be like 39 and he would have to go after Wlad. How would 39 year old Lewis do against 2007 Version of Wlad? I don't know.

Wlad have the luxury of not having a 'Wladimir' level opponent or a 'Vitali' level opponent around. He can stay forever.

If Young Lennox was around in 2012 instead of ***ing Mariuz Wach or David Haye. Let's see how well Wlad 'ages'.

Wladimir will 100% be retired by now if a Young Lewis was making his way up the ranks instead of god damn Tyson Fury.

You have some good points but Lennox fought Vitali when he was still 37 and retired 7 months later when he was 38 to avoid a mandatory rematch.

It was a smart thing because he narrowly avoided getting knocked out against Vitali. No way he wanted a rematch.

[HeGotPacProblem]

No news on the undercards right?

[JasonBoxing]

You have some good points but Lennox fought Vitali when he was still 37 and retired 7 months later when he was 38 to avoid a mandatory rematch.

It was a smart thing because he narrowly avoided getting knocked out against Vitali. No way he wanted a rematch.

And Vitali narrowly avoided ending up ******ed with one eye missing.

[LacedUp]

He didn't retire because he was scared of the robotic twin. He already ****ed up the better one at a old age. He retired I believe in part because of this:


He knew he had to give 100% effort in beating up Prime Vitali or Young Wlad. 100% effort at age 38-40(the years he will need to fight at if he was to target K2) is too much for a old man who have already achieved everything.

But without K2.................he only have to give 50% effort to dominate for another 3-4 years.

He weight his options and that's that.


Wladimir right now know he only have to give maybe 70% effort in all his fights. If Young Lewis was waiting in 2016? Wlad know he will be fighting for his life at age 39. His life. There's a big difference between jabbing your way to a slow and boring win over Jennings and fighting so you don't hemorrhage in the ring in front of your new kid.


Will a 100% fully motivated old ass Lewis beat a Prime Vitali again? Yes. I actually think so. But Lewis couldn't get back to 100% so he retired. Fair game to him.

But if it wasn't Vitali? But say a Sam Peter? Lewis don't have to put in quite as much work and he knows that. It have nothing to do with being scared. It's just weighting the options.

Lennox felt like he achieved everything and is a bona fide top 10 Heavyweight ATG. Perhaps top 5 in some people's list.

He obviously didn't know that beating up Vitali again and Wlad would put him as arguably Goat.............

Lewis to me was actually very very close to GOAT HW level if fate was kinder to him. No other Heavy got that realistically close.


Fate:
If Wlad challenged Lewis instead of Sanders and Lewis took that fight 100% motivated. Wlad gets knocked out.
If Lewis than do a better job of preparing for Vitali. He destroys Vitali in more dominant fashion. No debate.

He just cleaned out the LAST generation and this one. He's #1 over Ali imo.
He was capable of doing it and the circumstances was right. No other Heavy had that set of circumstances so close to lining up perfectly.

I know what you're getting at I just don't feel like Lewis' retirement had anything to do with that. Lewis was talking retirement after the second Rahman fight and said only Tyson was left. That was before the Klitschko's were really making their mark, even though Wlad was seen as the next potential champion.

If the Klitschko's weren't around I think Lewis would still have retired. The only reason why he took that extra fight was because it was originally planned for Tyson 2, but Tyson didn't feel like he was ready at that particular time and then HBO had already set a date down and then he'd fight his mando. Obviously then he dropped out and Klitschko came in.

What would be the point for Lewis in keep defending against no hopers like Sam Peter or Chris Byrd? Or against guys he'd already beaten?

Not much in my opinion.

Right now, Wlad has the desire to at least become official undisputed champion. That's surely his target. When he's reached that point there'll possibly be another great young hungry lion in Anthony Joshua waiting in the wings. Or Tyson Fury. And right now there's Deontay Wilder.

Those 3 are young, strong, hungry guys. And he still has the desire to keep going. I think that should be applauded.

Say AJ went on to KO other top contenders like Pulev and Povetkin or Fury or someone like that, I don't particularly think it would have an effect on whether he chose to fight on or not - Although someone will inevitably say he ducked the next challenger. Just like people are still claiming Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch even though he smashed him up on his worst night.

Some people even say he ducked Wlad. Which is laughable and ignorant.

Wlad is free to retire now if he wanted to and would still be regarded as an ATG heavyweight, but still has the desire to fight on.

I don't know which in world Lewis is #1 over Ali, but it's not this one.

[cupocity303]

This guy Jason is living in a bubble that needs to be popped, where he just arrogantly presumes that Lennox's competition is somehow better than Wlad's, without any details on why that is.

Lewis retired at 38. In no mathematical universe is 38 'mid 30's. That's late 30's.

Lewis also took much more punishment than Wlad. Now weather that's a indication of Lewis fighting tougher opponents(general consensus) or Wlad being more careful. That's up for debate.

Why only two options? The debate should be whether Lewis even had better competition. YES, it's true that he faced BIGGER names (Holyfield, Tyson) but were they any better at that time then a prime Haye? Doubt it. With Wlad, it's damn if you do and damn if you don't. When he is winning (albeit dominating) it's bad and exposes the weakness of this era, and when he is losing, it's even worse. The guy literally has to be 66-0 right now, instead of 63-3 (room for error, which happened. Nobody comes out undefeated after 66 fights, unless you're a Mexican like Chavez, Chavez Jr, Canelo and pad your first 30-40 fights with Mexican circuit pinjata bums.) according to some... because the competition presumingly is that bad, that even losing 3 times out of 66 fights must mean that he couldn't possibly beat the ATG's the past. Nonsense.

Lewis actually COULD have kept going as well. I 100% believe even a shot old slow faded Lennox if given time to prepare would have UD Prime Vitali.

You have no sound basis for this opinion. Given what we know about Vitali and how he boxes and wins against Non-Lewis opponents, and considering that he was winning rounds off of Lewis (albeit a perhaps undertrained Lennox) it's fair to say that it would have been competitive even if both were in their primes.

Hell, what about Vitali? Yes, he was younger and prime, but he took on the Heavyweight Champ on two-weeks notice. He was preparing for a different opponent just the same as Lennox (who trained for Kirk Johnson).

That was Lennox's mistake in retiring instead of whooping Prime Vitali's ass in a more dominant fashion.

Yes it was a mistake but history will forgive him for it, and ultimately it was the smart move as he knew that he couldn't do any better or at least wasn't mentally up for it, after the grueling fight they had. Fighters know better then fans.

After what they went through in their first fight, Lennox probably couldn't imagine having it any easier the second time. It's not like Vitali pulled a fast one on him (a la Rahman ko'ing him)

Of course after that than what? Lewis would be like 39 and he would have to go after Wlad. How would 39 year old Lewis do against 2007 Version of Wlad? I don't know.

Why 2007 version? Lennox retired in 2002.

Wlad have the luxury of not having a 'Wladimir' level opponent or a 'Vitali' level opponent around. He can stay forever

Wlad is a rare bird. In fact, he is so rare that the only guy who can even compare shares the same blood/DNA as him. His big bro. Of course he is not gonna run into a carbon copy of himself, just as Muhamad Ali never ran into another Ali ---unless you count Larry Holmes who was trying to move around like Ali in some of his fights.

If Young Lennox was around in 2012 instead of ***ing Mariuz Wach or David Haye. Let's see how well Wlad 'ages'.

It could've been a competitive fight, with both guys having the chance of doing to each other what Rahman and Sanders did to them, except it wouldn't have been a upset or lucky punch. But it's pretty clear that neither guy would've outboxed the other as it isn't in either guys resume.

Wladimir will 100% be retired by now if a Young Lewis was making his way up the ranks instead of god damn Tyson Fury.

Speculation, speculation. Once a guy retires and is safe from ever getting beat in his prime. But this goes for everyone. If only Lennox ran into Ali, if only Ali ran into Tyson. If only Joe Louis ran into Ali etc,.

[MASTER1454]

You have some good points but Lennox fought Vitali when he was still 37 and retired 7 months later when he was 38 to avoid a mandatory rematch.

It was a smart thing because he narrowly avoided getting knocked out against Vitali. No way he wanted a rematch.

EXACTLY what I said! Truth......