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Why Wladimir Klitschko will beat Toney.

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  • Why Wladimir Klitschko will beat Toney.

    1. Toney's weakness on the inside:

    Toney is a genius counterpuncher on the inside. Sometimes he seems to have radar in both gloves the way he connects so cleanly from just about any given angle he may be in in a fight. However he lacks one very important element of an inside fighter's game and that is strength. Some of the greatest infighters of all time such as Fullmer, LaMotta, and Basilio all had incredible strength for their size. Even today a guy like Castillo has insane strength. Toney on the other hand is physically one of the weakest heavyweights in the top ten of the division. He was easily manhandled by Rahman and easily shoved around by Ruiz. I don't care how relaxed you are, if a stronger man is pushing, leaning and tugging on you all night it saps the strength in your arms and legs slows you down.

    Toney slowed down noticeably against Rahman because of this and IMO Wladimir is an even stronger man that Rahman. To my estimation, Wladimir is one of the stronger heavyweights we've seen in the last ten years (look at how he tied up Samuel Peter). No matter how good Toney is on the inside, his lack of strength will always come back to bite him when the other guy ties him up and makes it into a wrestling match. Wladimir knows this and will take advantage of this when the fight goes to close quarters.

    2. Toney did not like the jab!

    Hasim Rahman showed us just how Toney reacts to the jab, doubling it up at times and snapping his head back. This punch kept him off through a good portion of some of the middle rounds. Ruiz also landed the jab with some success at points in their fight. Wladimir has a better jab than either man and will stay on the outside with it.

    3. The hook.

    Hasim Rahman, despite being known for having a completely mediocre hook, used it effectively last night and tagged Toney with it more often than the right hand. Wladimir has a short, very speed, hook on the inside which he used to great effect against Derrick Jefferson and against Sam Peter late in their fight.

    4. The straight right.

    When Rahman did throw a half decent straight right early in the fight, he caught Toney with it and moved him back. Ruiz hit Toney with some nice rights in their fight but lacks as serious punch. Rahman has a good right hand but he did not want to throw it much, most likely in fear of getting countered by Toney's hook. Wladimir has IMO the best right hand in the division and he usually sets it up with the jab. He will throw it from long distance after finding his range with the jab (and snapping Toney's head into place) and not have to worry about being countered.

    5. 6'7" vs. 5'9"

    Wladimir's height is a HUGE advantage, and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. When Rahman stayed at long range he had great success. His jab had Toney off balance and missing with looping right hands that made him look rather foolish at times. Wladimir is so tall and rangy, and better than using his size than Rahman, that Toney won't have as many moments to even get to the inside (where he will be met with a friendly Ukrainian hug and lots of mauling).

    6. Toney can't hurt Wladimir.

    Hasim Rahman has a shaky chin, a very shaky chin. In fact, I'm not so sure Wladimir's chin is any worse. The problem for Toney is that in spite of a high percentage of landed (flush) shots, he never had Rahman in serious trouble. If he can't hurt Rahman, what makes anyone think he can hurt Wladimir? If he can't hurt Wladimir, we can expect to see Wlad set himself and really punch with his best efforts, something he rarely did with Samuel Peter.

    I could probably go on but my stomach is rumbling and I want some breakfast. Someone will probably try to point out Toney's so called stamina advantage (a result of his composure while fighting and getting hit) but that will be nullifed by Wlad's strength who will wear him down and make him the weaker man late in the fight.

    Also does anyone else remember Toney saying he trained harder and longer for this fight than any other in the recent past? I believe him, but I don't think it will matter. He was in good shape for this fight cardiovascular wise, but he's too old and too weak to look fresh late in the fight. As far as his weight is concerned, he can come in at 215 pounds; he'll just be easier for Wladimir to shove around. Being so much smaller and weaker, Toney always have trouble in the late rounds with these stronger fighters, as long as they use their natural advantages in a constructive way (tying Toney up and wrestling him when he gets inside, and then stepping outside to score with punches when not engaged in a clinch).

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kid Achilles
    we can expect to see Wlad set himself and really punch with his best efforts, something he rarely did with Samuel Peter.
    Greatest first post man. This quote is really on the money, because Wlad didin't want to get caught reaching against Peter.

    Of course you noticed...he shortened up his punches. That was not his full extent of power...if he took chances with the mentioned punches, he might have finished him.



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    • #3
      I agree except that you write 'will' as if this is going to take place. Why would fans of either fighter want this? There are more interesting fights than this from Toney and Wlad's list (if he wins against Byrd) should include only the titlists plus a rematch with Peter. Only if Wlad loses could he fight Toney, and that fight would be for ****s and giggles only.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kid Achilles
        1. Toney's weakness on the inside:

        Toney is a genius counterpuncher on the inside. Sometimes he seems to have radar in both gloves the way he connects so cleanly from just about any given angle he may be in in a fight. However he lacks one very important element of an inside fighter's game and that is strength. Some of the greatest infighters of all time such as Fullmer, LaMotta, and Basilio all had incredible strength for their size. Even today a guy like Castillo has insane strength. Toney on the other hand is physically one of the weakest heavyweights in the top ten of the division. He was easily manhandled by Rahman and easily shoved around by Ruiz. I don't care how relaxed you are, if a stronger man is pushing, leaning and tugging on you all night it saps the strength in your arms and legs slows you down.

        Toney slowed down noticeably against Rahman because of this and IMO Wladimir is an even stronger man that Rahman. To my estimation, Wladimir is one of the stronger heavyweights we've seen in the last ten years (look at how he tied up Samuel Peter). No matter how good Toney is on the inside, his lack of strength will always come back to bite him when the other guy ties him up and makes it into a wrestling match. Wladimir knows this and will take advantage of this when the fight goes to close quarters.

        2. Toney did not like the jab!

        Hasim Rahman showed us just how Toney reacts to the jab, doubling it up at times and snapping his head back. This punch kept him off through a good portion of some of the middle rounds. Ruiz also landed the jab with some success at points in their fight. Wladimir has a better jab than either man and will stay on the outside with it.

        3. The hook.

        Hasim Rahman, despite being known for having a completely mediocre hook, used it effectively last night and tagged Toney with it more often than the right hand. Wladimir has a short, very speed, hook on the inside which he used to great effect against Derrick Jefferson and against Sam Peter late in their fight.

        4. The straight right.

        When Rahman did throw a half decent straight right early in the fight, he caught Toney with it and moved him back. Ruiz hit Toney with some nice rights in their fight but lacks as serious punch. Rahman has a good right hand but he did not want to throw it much, most likely in fear of getting countered by Toney's hook. Wladimir has IMO the best right hand in the division and he usually sets it up with the jab. He will throw it from long distance after finding his range with the jab (and snapping Toney's head into place) and not have to worry about being countered.

        5. 6'7" vs. 5'9"

        Wladimir's height is a HUGE advantage, and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. When Rahman stayed at long range he had great success. His jab had Toney off balance and missing with looping right hands that made him look rather foolish at times. Wladimir is so tall and rangy, and better than using his size than Rahman, that Toney won't have as many moments to even get to the inside (where he will be met with a friendly Ukrainian hug and lots of mauling).

        6. Toney can't hurt Wladimir.

        Hasim Rahman has a shaky chin, a very shaky chin. In fact, I'm not so sure Wladimir's chin is any worse. The problem for Toney is that in spite of a high percentage of landed (flush) shots, he never had Rahman in serious trouble. If he can't hurt Rahman, what makes anyone think he can hurt Wladimir? If he can't hurt Wladimir, we can expect to see Wlad set himself and really punch with his best efforts, something he rarely did with Samuel Peter.

        I could probably go on but my stomach is rumbling and I want some breakfast. Someone will probably try to point out Toney's so called stamina advantage (a result of his composure while fighting and getting hit) but that will be nullifed by Wlad's strength who will wear him down and make him the weaker man late in the fight.

        Also does anyone else remember Toney saying he trained harder and longer for this fight than any other in the recent past? I believe him, but I don't think it will matter. He was in good shape for this fight cardiovascular wise, but he's too old and too weak to look fresh late in the fight. As far as his weight is concerned, he can come in at 215 pounds; he'll just be easier for Wladimir to shove around. Being so much smaller and weaker, Toney always have trouble in the late rounds with these stronger fighters, as long as they use their natural advantages in a constructive way (tying Toney up and wrestling him when he gets inside, and then stepping outside to score with punches when not engaged in a clinch).
        You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kid Achilles again.

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        • #5
          It's also a really bad thing for Toney to use his defensive tactics and try and lay on the ropes. His best shot would be in the center of the ring, somehow counterpunching and making him miss. Toney would hold the gaurd up high, and Wlad would do what he normally does:

          Slap the gaurd down with the left hand, land the left hook then shooting right hand. That's fluid. Monte Barret will tell you all about that.



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          • #6
            Totally disagree with you saying that Wladimir's chin is no worse that rocks chin. thats bull**** of the highest callibre, sorry.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by paul750
              Totally disagree with you saying that Wladimir's chin is no worse that rocks chin. thats bull**** of the highest callibre, sorry.
              Tua T.K.O. 10
              Lewis K.O. 4
              Maskaev K.O. 8

              Wlad at least gets up off the canvas after falling. Rahman usually asks for a pillow:

              You can't defend this



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              • #8
                Explain that to me. Prove that Wladimir has a worse chin. All of the guys who hurt Wladimir were known for their punching power. He was also never KTFO like Rahman was. Wladimir has only been stopped by TKO and never cleanly knocked out like Rahman was vs. Lewis and Maskaev. Wlad always has the mental awareness to at least get to his feet when the stoppage occurs whereas in two occassions of his professional life, Rahman was put completely out.

                Neither have a good chin but Wladimir's is no worse than Rahman's.

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                • #9
                  Well if Toney shows up to fight Wlad like in the condition he was in last night then Wlad beats him easily. Rahman fought him at very close range and on the ropes a lot. You saw when Toney was on the outside he was next to useless. The difference is Wlad WILL NOT fight him at close range. He doesnt have to. All he has to do is stick him with the jab and the left hook. And make him move!! Toney has gotten very lazy over the years. He likes to stand still and for some reason fighters do not take advantage of Toney being so heavy footed. If Wlad can bounce around and jab like he did against Peter Toney will have some real problems landing anything.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Stylewise, Wlad should win. But you forget, Wlad has the worst heavyweight chin maybe of all time. Toney can and would knock him out. Just because he didn't hurt Rahman, you think he can't KO Wlad? Give me a break.

                    The only people to knock Rahman out/down have been ****ERS like Tua, Lewis, Sanders, and Maskaev. Those 4 guys could put ANYBODY down.

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