How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[Elroy1]

Bam!!!! should be end of thread, the cold hard truth comes in and visits Elroy and the dunce brigade buya!!!!!!!!!!!

Except all of those things were debunked and only one of those points was at all worthy of further investigation.

That top contenders don't fight each other as often.

That might be true and imo should be somehow addressed in boxing.

However it is false to claim that top contenders who challenge for a title don't DESERVE the opportunity. They cannot make a fight with the champ (who cannot fight such a challenger) unless they atleast beat one or 2 of the gate keepers first. Yes you can pad your record beforehand though.

If this is what is implied then again, it is the past generations champions that are guilty of cherry picking since only back then could you receicve a title shot by beating absolute bums (like Bonavena when he got hios shot vs Ali and many other instances).

[LacedUp]

Of course Sanders was the better man on the night and Wlad's head wasn't in the right space. Regardless, if Sanders was not a dangerous opponent, he wouldn't have been able to capitalise on it would of he. Bruno and MAvorvic are not on Sanders level, get out of here and Rahman was mediocre wtf? This guy fought great competition, what are you talking about! And he was never easy.

I thought LEnnox was down in both the Briggs and Bruno fights, I was mistaken though, it had been awhile since I seen them. I never claimed Lennox was put on his ass by Mavrovic.

I also never claimed Sanders was the hardest puncher of all time either. You are either confusing me with someone else or making up tall tales again (as is typical behaviour from you).

Depends on what your definition of "prime" is. Athletically your prime is about 30 (25-35).

Speed your prime is early 20's

Endurance the prime is around 35

Strength your prime is around 35-40 but can be significantly increased even further, especially at HW where older HW's are usually heavier.

Power probably peaks at around 35-40 lb for lb but again, can be maintained as it is based significantly on weight.

And experience always grows

But damage and decline in mental focus begins to take their toll from about 35 onwards imo.

There is no universal definition of "prime",

I think the prime of a boxer is when as many attributes are peaking simultaneously.

For pressure fighters, this prime is admittedly shorter. Tyson and Frazier were done in their 30's. Because they needed to be so sharp to be able to perform that style.

Long boxer punchers like Wladimir can be prime well into their 30's.

I expect Wladimir to decline after 40, but I also expect him to retire before he does so significantly too. Wisely!

Bruno was way better, stronger and punched much harder than Sanders. Mavrovic was crap, I'll give you that, never said he wasn't. But Bruno was far and away better than Sanders.

So you go on and list a whole heap of end 30s prime, but then say there's no definition of prime?

A heavyweights prime is probably from 27-32 years old with emphasis on the late 20s. Certainly not 37.

Maybe it's Weltszfarts who claims Sanders is one of the hardest hitters of all time. You're both on equal levels of ignorance.

[LacedUp]

Peter is just as good as ****ing Briggs for Christ sake you idiot!

Briggs best win was Liakovich who always boxed like he was sick.

Other than that, Briggs simply wasn't that good.

Ripping off Peter is just childish.

Truth is, Wladimir's opponents are about comparable to LEnnox's.

Most Russians would claim that Wladimir fought MORE decent opponents than Lennox. Not agreeing, but THAT'S the type of thinking what goes on overseas.

Thompson beats up the Tyson that LEnnox fought
Haye destroys Grant
Chambers outboxes Tua anyday of the week
Chagaev outboxes Golota
Peter punches out Botha
Povetkin pulverises Mavrovic
Ibragimov has beaten Briggs and Holyfield.

And so on.

It's a legit question though. Who did Peter actually beat?

Dare I say Liakhovic would be amongst the best wins on Peter's resume? I think I would.

[LacedUp]

Except all of those things were debunked and only one of those points was at all worthy of further investigation.

That top contenders don't fight each other as often.

That might be true and imo should be somehow addressed in boxing.

However it is false to claim that top contenders who challenge for a title don't DESERVE the opportunity. They cannot make a fight with the champ (who cannot fight such a challenger) unless they atleast beat one or 2 of the gate keepers first. Yes you can pad your record beforehand though.

If this is what is implied then again, it is the past generations champions that are guilty of cherry picking since only back then could you receicve a title shot by beating absolute bums (like Bonavena when he got hios shot vs Ali and many other instances).

Who did Pianeta and Mormeck beat to get a shot? Rahman? Peter in the second Wlad fight? Tony Thompson? Leapai?

What about Wach? The latest batch of contenders weren't even contenders, they were just cherry picked by Wlad.

[daggum]

Who did Pianeta and Mormeck beat to get a shot? Rahman? Peter in the second Wlad fight? Tony Thompson? Leapai?

What about Wach? The latest batch of contenders weren't even contenders, they were just cherry picked by Wlad.

yeah but wlad redeemed himself by "holding" his own against povetkin

[Joeyzagz]

Haye is the one guy that I would call an impressive win for Wladimir, and we really dont know if Haye is on Frank Bruno's level to be honest.

[LacedUp]

yeah but wlad redeemed himself by "holding" his own against povetkin

No pun intended/

[LacedUp]

Haye is the one guy that I would call an impressive win for Wladimir, and we really dont know if Haye is on Frank Bruno's level to be honest.

We do know. We know he isn't.

Frank Bruno gave Lennox Lewis a good fight. Chisora gave Haye a similar type of fight. Those are the levels.

[Elroy1]

It's a legit question though. Who did Peter actually beat?

Dare I say Liakhovic would be amongst the best wins on Peter's resume? I think I would.

So Maskaev, McCline and Toney aren't comparable to Liakovich?

Peter and Briggs are comparable.

Your pumping up Briggs and downgrading Peter.

Objectively speaking they were both good opponents for Wladimir and Lennox respectively. Champion boxers but not the stuff of dominance and neither were technically brilliant. Both relied on being big and strong.

As for your comment previously regarding Sanders and Bruno, Bruno was more athletic and stronger than Sanders, I agree.

But Sanders was more skilled, powerful and much faster, more dangerous and more aggressive than Bruno ever was. That is a fact!

Bruno was never anything but a joke. Promoted only at the time because England lacked a HW boxing influence. Enter Lennox Lewis. See ya later Bruno!

[LacedUp]

So Maskaev, McCline and Toney aren't comparable to Liakovich?

Peter and Briggs are comparable.

Your pumping up Briggs and downgrading Peter.

Objectively speaking they were both good opponents for Wladimir and Lennox respectively. Champion boxers but not the stuff of dominance and neither were technically brilliant. Both relied on being big and strong.

As for your comment previously regarding Sanders and Bruno, Bruno was more athletic and stronger than Sanders, I agree.

But Sanders was more skilled, powerful and much faster, more dangerous and more aggressive than Bruno ever was. That is a fact!

Bruno was never anything but a joke. Promoted only at the time because England lacked a HW boxing influence. Enter Lennox Lewis. See ya later Bruno!

Yeah, they are comparable. As in pretty equal actually. In fact, Toney beat a "prime" Peter. So did other average heavies like Eddie Chambers.

I never pumped up Briggs - The guy adds absolutely nothing to Lennox's resume. If he wasn't on it, it would neither be worse or better off. He's just meh really.

Peter on the other hand is sadly one of the better wins on Wlad's resume.

Bruno was bigger, stronger and hit much harder than Sanders. Sanders might have been quicker and that was it.