Clinching discussion: Thoughts, opinions, when is it acceptable?

[The Gambler1981]

Clinching is okay when an opponent is clumsily bullrushing a fighter, like Brook/Porter. I don't like it, but Brook has few options against someone who fought as wild as Porter, constantly in his face and swinging punches behind his head.

Clinching is NOT okay when a fighter is reaching out to clinch when there's no reason, like Wlad does against everyone and Mayweather did against Maidana.

To play devel's adovacate

Most people bring up Wlad-Povetkin as the gold standard on the topic and rightly so. That is essentially what Povetkin was doing though wildly bull rushing in low pretty much forcing Wlad into doing what he did. Then Povetkin made it even worse by doing no work on the way in or once he got in. It takes two to tango like that

I don't see the distinction between Brook-Porter and Mayweather-Maidana 2 they are both pretty similar examples.

[bojangles1987]

To play devel's adovacate

Most people bring up Wlad-Povetkin as the gold standard on the topic and rightly so. That is essentially what Povetkin was doing though wildly bull rushing in low pretty much forcing Wlad into doing what he did. Then Povetkin made it even worse by doing no work on the way in or once he got in. It takes two to tango like that

I don't see the distinction between Brook-Porter and Mayweather-Maidana 2 they are both pretty similar examples.

No way, Povetkin was trying to get past the height and reach because it was his only chance. Wlad was reaching out and clinching EVERY SINGLE TIME Povetkin got within arm's reach. Just because Povetkin isn't skilled enough to combat the clinching doesn't mean Wlad was right to do it. He was a disgrace, and his performance in that fight is one of the worst in heavyweight championship history.

And there's a clear difference between Brook/Porter and Mayweather/Maidana. Porter had faster feet and was jumping into Brook over and over. Like I said, Brook has few options there. Porter was even the one initiating at least half the clinches, especially late.

Mayweather was reaching out like Wlad and tying Maidana up when Maidana was trying to get past the reach and initiate his offense. Like Wlad, he was clinching not to neutralize a wild fighter, but to spoil the fight. And he got away with, like Wlad, because the ref was terrible and let him do so.

[The Gambler1981]

No way, Povetkin was trying to get past the height and reach because it was his only chance. Wlad was reaching out and clinching EVERY SINGLE TIME Povetkin got within arm's reach. Just because Povetkin isn't skilled enough to combat the clinching doesn't mean Wlad was right to do it. He was a disgrace, and his performance in that fight is one of the worst in heavyweight championship history.

And there's a clear difference between Brook/Porter and Mayweather/Maidana. Porter had faster feet and was jumping into Brook over and over. Like I said, Brook has few options there. Porter was even the one initiating at least half the clinches, especially late.

Mayweather was reaching out like Wlad and tying Maidana up when Maidana was trying to get past the reach and initiate his offense. Like Wlad, he was clinching not to neutralize a wild fighter, but to spoil the fight. And he got away with, like Wlad, because the ref was terrible and let him do so.

Sticking to the Wlad-Povetkin thing because that was what I wanted to chat about anyway, although I disagree about the other stuff though both were roughly the same dealing with a wild physical fighters just one was more tricky vet while the other was a better athlete. Agree to disagree on that though.

Povetkin was certainly trying to get past Wlad's range but he was wild and sloppy with it pushing way too far in instead of stopping short in punching range. He was always pressing through Wlad as if he was trying to tackle him. He also failed to work on the way in and while inside even when he had free arms. Wlad certainly played his part just letting this occur and taking huge advantage of the situation but Povetkin played a huge role also. Once a pattern is established where a guy expects certain things a smart fighter will take preemptive action, I don't like faulting guys for the correct fighting instinct (to win).

It was a terrible fight because of what they both did, that is my main issue with people calling out clinching though I like seeing what the other guy did to help create that situation and what did they do to actually avoid it because it is almost always a two way street even in the worst examples.

[bojangles1987]

Sticking to the Wlad-Povetkin thing because that was what I wanted to chat about anyway, although I disagree about the other stuff though both were roughly the same dealing with a wild physical fighters just one was more tricky vet while the other was a better athlete. Agree to disagree on that though.

Povetkin was certainly trying to get past Wlad's range but he was wild and sloppy with it pushing way to far in instead of stopping short in punching range. He was always pressing through Wlad as if he was trying to tackle him. Wlad certainly played his part just letting this occur but Povetkin played a huge role. Once a pattern is established where a guy expects certain things a smart fighter will take preemptive action

It was a terrible fight because of what they both did, that is my main issue with people calling out clinching though I like seeing what the other guy did to help create that situation and what did they do to actually avoid it because it is almost always a two way street even in the worst examples.

Wlad didn't have to clinch, though. There were a half dozen moments in that fight where Wlad would counter and hurt Povetkin, and then clinch him when he was hurt, allowing Povetkin to recover. He was literally walking forward and reaching out to clinch.

And again, Povetkin's lack of skill doesn't excuse Wlad. Povetkin did the same thing over and over because he had no idea how to handle someone clinching him that much. I can't blame him for not knowing.

Wlad does it in every fight, whenever his opponent gets within arm's reach. Even the first half of the first round that Leapai managed to move forward and apply pressure, Wlad clinched every time. The man is a cheating clincher.

[The Gambler1981]

Wlad didn't have to clinch, though. There were a half dozen moments in that fight where Wlad would counter and hurt Povetkin, and then clinch him when he was hurt, allowing Povetkin to recover. He was literally walking forward and reaching out to clinch.

And again, Povetkin's lack of skill doesn't excuse Wlad. Povetkin did the same thing over and over because he had no idea how to handle someone clinching him that much. I can't blame him for not knowing.

Wlad does it in every fight, whenever his opponent gets within arm's reach. Even the first half of the first round that Leapai managed to move forward and apply pressure, Wlad clinched every time. The man is a cheating clincher.

Obviously Wlad made the easy choices that night and he landed every meaningful punch in that fight. I don't know how Povetkin even got up toward the end. Still most of what happened because of what Povetkin did and Wlad reacting to that, Wlad being the better fighter should dictate the fight better and not be so reactive so it was not a good performance at all from him.

It is no secret what Wlad would do if you rushed him like Povetkin did, it was the obvious thing Wlad was going to do. So for the biggest fight of his life Povetkin should have been prepared for that.

I am not saying Wlad doesn't wrap guys up all the time I was talking specifically about the Povetkin fight. Another thing that bugged me about that fight was Povetkin was bull rushing in but was unwilling to use that momentum to bully Wlad who while strong physically I think he could get bullied but Povetkin wanting to be a sportsman robbed me of seeing that. So he only had like half a plan for the fight which made that fight even worse.


Povetkin or anyone in his position needs to do a lot more for me to be very sympathetic to their issues with clinching. If a guy does all they can and that was the deciding factor I can see being upset, but so often guys just fall a part when they get clinched and just give up.