boxers win championships in the ring not based off speculation and popularity

[Daddy T]

Everybody knows GGG is the best 160 pounder out there.

[Erwin Rommel]

Just a quick question here. Since Cotto is considered the lineal champ at MW, and say the next 2 to 3 years he's fighting a bunch of 154 pound guys and doesn't fight any MWs, and GGG cleans out the division, who is man of the MW division then?

[Bushbaby]

So Cotto isnt the lineal champ? Or like LacedUp, you feel that Cotto is the lineal champ, but just not the "true champ" in your own individual opinion, however you define that?

The bold on underlined, Where the hell did that come from?? You couldn't have gotten that from my post. People should try to read and understand not simply sound out words.

[Levity]

Lineal titles do not make someone the top fighter in the division or 'the man' any more than an evaluation of a fighter's body of work in a division does.

Fine if you want to track who won belts from who, but don't conflate that with being at the very top of the division. It's especially nonsensical today when the best don't fight the best as they did in previous generations; there is now more dodging and politics preventing important fights from occurring.

Just a quick question here. Since Cotto is considered the lineal champ at MW, and say the next 2 to 3 years he's fighting a bunch of 154 pound guys and doesn't fight any MWs, and GGG cleans out the division, who is man of the MW division then?

Those clinging to lineage have to say Cotto, which makes you wonder why people should care about lineal titles.

[LacedUp]

Okay so you're distinguishing the terms "lineal champ" from "true champ". The former is a fact (Cotto IS the lineal champ, which you're not challenging), and the latter is your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion. I have a different opinion. I am a huge believer in structure and order, so when discussing who our boxing champions are, Im only interested in the facts.

The two aren't the same at all though. As I've eluded to in this thread, there are plenty of examples in history where lineage doesn't = true champ.

He was considered the lineal champ. Nothing more and nothing less. Lineage does not equal best although the lineal champion more often than not, is the best.

I agree, but that's not the discussion here though. Lineal doesn't mean = true champ in 100% of the cases, but it does more often than not.

[Masters01]

The bold on underlined, Where the hell did that come from?? You couldn't have gotten that from my post. People should try to read and understand not simply sound out words.

You were inspecific. I sought clarity on your part, so I presented you with options designed to make you be clear. You are clear now. You accept Cotto's lineage (a factual thing) but you think that he isnt the "true champ" in your own eyes (an opinion thing).

Your opinion is GGG is the "true champ", my opinion is that Cotto is "true champ" (lol this feels so silly), yet both our opinions are trumped by the fact that Cotto is the world-recognised lineal champ. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am unmoved so long as you and others recognise who actually earned the recognition of champ, via lineage and thus via fact. Pretty sure we're done here.

[RAV3N]

Just a quick question here. Since Cotto is considered the lineal champ at MW, and say the next 2 to 3 years he's fighting a bunch of 154 pound guys and doesn't fight any MWs, and GGG cleans out the division, who is man of the MW division then?

Most people already say that GGG is the man at 160, he just needs a shot at the lineal title.

[SilverMiles]

I think in most cases it not wise to pay attention to lineage in boxing. Cotto is the lineal champion only because Martinez refused to fight GGG for years.

I rather pay attention to things like who is the best fighter in the division, currently GGG is the best so I consider him the man to beat.

But I do understand and respect your opinion.

[RAV3N]

You were inspecific. I sought clarity on your part, so I presented you with options designed to make you be clear. You are clear now. You accept Cotto's lineage (a factual thing) but you think that he isnt the "true champ" in your own eyes (an opinion thing).

Your opinion is GGG is the "true champ", my opinion is that Cotto is "true champ" (lol this feels so silly), yet both our opinions are trumped by the fact that Cotto is the world-recognised lineal champ. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am unmoved so long as you and others recognise who actually earned the recognition of champ, via lineage and thus via fact. Pretty sure we're done here.

Here is the real question, do you think that Cotto will beat GGG at 160?

[therealpugilist]

Champ is champ

Best is up for speculation...opinion based