Erislandy Lara vs Saul Alvarez.. Who Won?

[Bardock]

Again, some of that becomes muddled and open to interpretation. Canelo was obviously the aggressor. But the criteria specifies effective aggression. How effective Saul was is up for debate. He definitely followed Lara around the ring and threw punches on occasion, but he often missed badly. Does that qualify as "effective"? I'm sure some people think so.

I'm not a fan of Compubox, because it can be misleading. But it can be a tool. If you were to go strictly by punches landed/thrown on a round-by-round basis, Lara wins 7-4 (with the twelfth dead even at 12/43 punches landed/thrown). But it's not so simple. What were the quality of the punches? And are the numbers even accurate? Remember, these are just a couple of dudes pushing buttons during the fight. They're human. They make mistakes. That's why I take Compubox with a grain of salt.

Close fight, and with the clash of styles, more difficult than usual to judge. I'll never, ever get 117-111. lol

so let's not give the aggression category to anybody huh? The ONLY aggressor in the fight was canelo and by default he gets the category but to say he wasn't effective is a stretch. He landed a high % of his power shots to the body. Canelo gets the 2 most important categories in the scoring criteria in his benefit.

[Skip Bayless]

i had canelo winning 116-113

[icha]

The criteria for scoring in this sport is very arbitrary.

On another note, this sport is very unpredictable. Before the fight, if I were told by the ghost of boxing future that Lara would look good early on, finish relatively strong, rarely be hit to the head, keep Canelo at a low connect%, and never be kd, visible hurt, wobbled etc., I'd be confident that he'd win. Even the most ardent Canelo fans would be worried if they were told the same thing lol.

But even with all that, it was a close fight that could've gone either way.

see , you can make good posts sometimes...

[northstar]

see , you can make good posts sometimes...

I make good posts all the time lol. Do you think the fight could've gone either way?

[CubanGuyNYC]

The criteria for scoring in this sport is very arbitrary.

On another note, this sport is very unpredictable. Before the fight, if I were told by the ghost of boxing future that Lara would look good early on, finish relatively strong, rarely be hit to the head, keep Canelo at a low connect%, and never be kd, visible hurt, wobbled etc., I'd be confident that he'd win. Even the most ardent Canelo fans would be worried if they were told the same thing lol.

But even with all that, it was a close fight that could've gone either way.

Once again, we see eye-to-eye.

At its best, few sports move me like boxing. At its worst, boxing disgusts me like no other sport. The reason is scoring. In no other sport do you inject human subjectivity and bias into the scoring as in boxing. When you hear people say things like, "To me, the fighter who was most aggressive, even though he missed punches, should win the fight," you know you have a problem. It's not a matter of preference. You can't have that kind of subjectivity and expect just outcomes every time, especially in a close fight.

In baseball, you don't get extra points because a home run travelled 450 ft, as opposed to the opponent's 350 footer. In basketball, a scoring shot doesn't count for extra just because it was the dunk of the year. And, honestly, if I believe in my heart my fighter lost, I'll live with it, just like I've dealt with more important losses...better, actually. But everyone knows that feeling of being had, or thinking you might've been had. The uncertainty is worse than the knowledge that you really did lose. At least in an objective system, there's closure. Boxing lacks that, and it can be maddening.

[CubanGuyNYC]

see , you can make good posts sometimes...

lol northstar makes great posts...but he's quite vicious when provoked.

[BOXEO _]

This






Plus This







= Boring fight, fans lose

[BOXEO _]

[CubanGuyNYC]

so let's not give the aggression category to anybody huh? The ONLY aggressor in the fight was canelo and by default he gets the category but to say he wasn't effective is a stretch. He landed a high % of his power shots to the body. Canelo gets the 2 most important categories in the scoring criteria in his benefit.

Canelo was the aggressor the whole fight, but what I'm saying is that that isn't necessarily enough. Even in a streetfight, I don't consider the guy who throws punches any better than the guy who slips, dodges, blocks, or otherwise avoids them. In fact, I would probably say the defender showed skill, while the other guy was merely a brute. See, anyone can move forward and throw punches, but it takes skill, speed and timing to land them. Is it effective if you're not landing? I don't think so. Saul landed body punches, sure, but I saw a lot of swinging and missing. And it's because Lara was making him miss. If Landy was any less skilled, he would've been caught in that meat grinder, just like many of the less-skilled fighters Alvarez has faced.

Assuming the punch stats are perfect (and I doubt they are), there's a good case for Lara winning this fight. He landed more punches (the first and main criteria). Regardless of whether they were so-called "power punches" or not, many were quite solid. I saw Canelo's head snap back often enough. That doesn't happen with mere "scoring" blows. Alvarez definitely landed some nice shots to the body, but many were hitting elbows and arms. It then becomes a question of perception. Which punches really did the most damage? Only two men know the real answer to that question. The rest of us have to guess. That's where judgement comes into play. And that's where the trouble begins, because everyone perceives things a little differently. Ever look at a hot chick on the street and say to your boy, "Mira que mami," only to hear the reply, "She aiight"? lol

[northstar]

lol northstar makes great posts...but he's quite vicious when provoked.

Thanks lmfao! It was all in good fun.