"Alien" Hopkins vs "Krusher" Kovalev Post fight Discussion thread

[Bushbaby]

But the Kovalev win is not great win...Floyds win over Maidana is better

See I knew you was fronting. Floyd shouldn't have even been taking to the places Maidana took him.

[LoadedWraps]

I can see Kovalev being Hopkinated. He's an exciting fighter to watch, is Kovalev.. that will change.

That would be crazy.

[soul_survivor]

I know though soulsurvivor

Hopkins top 10 wins are better than jones top 10 wins

Yeah I agree

The short answer is no.

Floyd's resume has much more quality than Hopkins has. Hopkins has longevity on his side, but Floyd is also nearly 40 and in my opinion is fighting a lot better opponents than Hopkins is. Hopkins is great, no doubt. But Floyd is that little greater and a lot better.

We gotta agree to disagree unless you put forward a compelling argument telling me who on floyd's resume is better than a prime Tito and the risks Hops took in facing guys like Pavlik, Tarver, Dawson, Pascal, Hops was not a favourite in any of these bouts (possibly is Pascal 2)

[bojangles1987]

Yeah I agree



We gotta agree to disagree unless you put forward a compelling argument telling me who on floyd's resume is better than a prime Tito and the risks Hops took in facing guys like Pavlik, Tarver, Dawson, Pascal, Hops was not a favourite in any of these bouts (possibly is Pascal 2)

He fought Pavlik at 170. Do you think Mayweather would get any credit for fighting anyone that moved up two divisions to fight him? He doesn't get any credit for Marquez, after all, a fighter leagues better than Pavlik. Hopkins lost to Dawson. Pascal is a nice name, but Floyd has a dozen Pascals on his resume. Same with Tarver. What makes Tarver better than Castillo or Oscar or Alvarez, all who Floyd moved up to fight at some point like Hopkins did Tarver?

I'll give you Tito, I'm not sure Floyd ever fought anyone that good under those circumstances. Maybe Castillo. But if you listed the 10 best fighters they've fought, Floyd's opponents would make up a lot more of that 10 than Hopkins's opponents would. Stretch it to 20 and it's all Floyd's resume.

[soul_survivor]

He fought Pavlik at 170. Do you think Mayweather would get any credit for fighting anyone that moved up two divisions to fight him? He doesn't get any credit for Marquez, after all, a fighter leagues better than Pavlik. Hopkins lost to Dawson. Pascal is a nice name, but Floyd has a dozen Pascals on his resume. Same with Tarver. What makes Tarver better than Castillo or Oscar or Alvarez, all who Floyd moved up to fight at some point like Hopkins did Tarver?

I'll give you Tito, I'm not sure Floyd ever fought anyone that good under those circumstances. Maybe Castillo. But if you listed the 10 best fighters they've fought, Floyd's opponents would make up a lot more of that 10 than Hopkins's opponents would. Stretch it to 20 and it's all Floyd's resume.

Bro, you know listing names without context is ridiculous.

Let's see if you agree with a few things I've said.

Was Pavlik not the favourite going into their fight with dangerous power? Was it not said by most observers, fans and journalists, that Hopkins would get beat?

Was Pascal not the favourite in their first fight, carrying athleticism and power and being the leading LHW on the planet, having just beaten Dawson?

Dawson did win but it was a terrible, ugly affair which neither guy dominated by Dawson deserved to edge a win, agreed?

Now, who on Floyd's resume was supposed to be a legitimate threat after Castillo? Possibly Corrales right?

Oscar was already past his best and a betting underdog. Hatton is a decent win imo but again, he didn't have huge power or skill to affect a prime Mayweather. Ortiz was an atrocity, agreed?

In that same time period, Mayweather should have at least two of the following names on his resume, Cotto, Marg, Pacquiao and a much younger Mosley, they would have all been considered threats at the time. Agreed?

[M Bison]

Gotta agree that Bernard has surpassed Roy Jones, sure Roy had one of the most stylistically pleasing fight style but Bhop has been defying the odds, I'm not his biggest fan mainly due to his attitude but he has so many more better names on his record than Roy has...
Then you can also take into consideration he was possibly robbed in at least one or two of his fights.

Longevity should definitely be took into consideration when we're looking at greatness and I think it has been with George Foreman thus the reason he is highly rated in that ATG heavyweight list that some people make up.
We never really got to see the best version of Bhop vs Roy Jones Jr and that is the only pity about his career.

[bojangles1987]

Bro, you know listing names without context is ridiculous.

Let's see if you agree with a few things I've said.

Was Pavlik not the favourite going into their fight with dangerous power? Was it not said by most observers, fans and journalists, that Hopkins would get beat?

Was Pascal not the favourite in their first fight, carrying athleticism and power and being the leading LHW on the planet, having just beaten Dawson?

Dawson did win but it was a terrible, ugly affair which neither guy dominated by Dawson deserved to edge a win, agreed?

Now, who on Floyd's resume was supposed to be a legitimate threat after Castillo? Possibly Corrales right?

Oscar was already past his best and a betting underdog. Hatton is a decent win imo but again, he didn't have huge power or skill to affect a prime Mayweather. Ortiz was an atrocity, agreed?

In that same time period, Mayweather should have at least two of the following names on his resume, Cotto, Marg, Pacquiao and a much younger Mosley, they would have all been considered threats at the time. Agreed?

Perception going in is one thing. They're why Hopkins gets so much credit. How good these fighters are is another.

Again, if you list the 10 best opponents they've fought, Floyd will have the majority, and maybe the large majority, of those names. Expand that list to 20 and you're listing only Floyd for almost the entire thing.

Hopkins is a great for his skill and longevity. The names lack in comparison to Floyd Mayweather. Roy Jones, too.

[LacedUp]

Yeah I agree

We gotta agree to disagree unless you put forward a compelling argument telling me who on floyd's resume is better than a prime Tito and the risks Hops took in facing guys like Pavlik, Tarver, Dawson, Pascal, Hops was not a favourite in any of these bouts (possibly is Pascal 2)

Hopkins top 10 is no way better than Jones' top 10. No effing way. Toney, Hopkins, Tarver, Ruiz, McCallum, Griffin, Reggie Johnson, Virgil Hill etc. I can only think of Tito and Tarver that can rival these. Oscar, Pavlik and Wright were fought at a weight heavily favouring Hopkins.

Jones' resume is simply miles better than Hopkins.

With regards to Floyd, he's got guys like Hernandez, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, De la hoya, Marquez, Cotto, Canelo, Maidana, Mosley and the list goes on. How many ATGs and HOFamers are on that list? Even Floyd's worse fights like Gatti, Baldomir, Judah, Corley, Augustus, Guerrero, Ortiz etc are far better than the duds Hopkins has been feeding off for most of his career.

Honestly I'd like to know how you could ever even think of saying Hopkins resume is better than Mayweathers? How? Mayweather has several ATGs on his resume and numerous hall of famers to be, whereas Hopkins has 3-4 at best.

Honestly, I don't even think it's an argument.

One guy doesn't make a resume. Dawson and Pascal er decent but they were nothing special and neither will get Into the HOF. Pavlik was fought at 170 I believe. Good win, nothing more.

[LoadedWraps]

I don't even know right now

That's a sign that it's such a great matchup. Whoever wins this fight will have earned it. Kovalev can prove he deserves every bit of the hype, B-Hop can further etch his name into history.

[Philantro]

With regards to Floyd, he's got guys like Hernandez, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, De la hoya, Marquez, Cotto, Canelo, Maidana, Mosley and the list goes on. How many ATGs and HOFamers are on that list?

Anyone can list many fighters, but that doesn't make you an expert. You must be aware of the context of the fights to be able to judge the achievement.

Mosley and De la Hoya were well past their primes, so he doesn't get full credit beating them.

The Marquez fight was scandalous because Floyd ignored the weigh-in limit, while Juan Manuel was moving up two weight classes in too short time, and without any PEDs, so Floyd doesn't get full credit for this win either.

Hatton was at his prime, but had to move up one weight class. Floyd should get close to full credit for that win.

Cotto was at his prime before July 2008, when he was brutalized by plaster fists. It is noticeable in that fight when water is put into the gloves to stiffen up the plaster. Miguel never fully recovered. And Cotto doesn't get any credit for beating an invalid in 2014, a disabled fighter who wasn' t even able to walk. So when Floyd won over Cotto in 2012, Miguel was well past his prime.

Floyd's second win over Castillo should get full credit. However, Castillo won their first fight, so Floyd should not get credit for that match.

The match against Canelo looked to be Floyd's most dangerous fight in a long time, but Canelo lacks many basic boxing skills and is still unable to cut off the ring when facing mobile fighters. Canelo has still flaws which can easily be exploited, so not fully credit if the 24-year-old learns how to improve them.

Hernandez was a fantastic win and Floyd had great killing instinct in that fight, so full credit.

Corrales had devastating personal problems when Floyd fought him. Six months earlier he was, for example, arrested by police for beating his then-wife Maria who was pregnant, and Corrales was due in court just after his fight with Floyd. He spent 14 months in prison as a result. How much this turbulence affected Corrales is debatable, but he certainly wasn't fully focused.

Maidana fought well 2009-2011, but was totally outclassed by Devon Alexander in 2012. Most people thought his prime was over but Robert Garcia's team seemed to have revitilized Marcos career when he won over Adrien Broner, at welterweight, in 2013. However, Broner is at his best at lightweight. Floyd gets full credit for winning this match, but many had the fight a draw.


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