Why are alis wins over liston seen as a testament to his greatness ? .

[catskills23]

I fail to see how people give ali massive aclaim and praise for beating an old undertrained ring rusty liston and people give tyson no credit for beating an old undertrained ring rust larry holmes . If anything tyson's victory over holmes means a lot more because holmes had a lot more left than liston because years later holmes gave a prime holyfield a tough fight and beat top contenders ray mercer and olver mccall . Its double standards if you ask me .

[TyrantT316]

The thing you have to realize...

Ali's win(s) over Liston are NOT what made him great...those wins are what put him on the map to the MAJOR public and setup his path to greatness...

Ali is great because of everything he does from Liston, on...

[hollister]

The thing you have to realize...

Ali's win(s) over Liston are NOT what made him great...those wins are what put him on the map to the MAJOR public and setup his path to greatness...

Ali is great because of everything he does from Liston, on...

I agree with you completely, nobody knew who he was before he fought Liston. I think it was seen as a big upset at the time though because Liston had that unbeatable image, people didn't want to see him as having his best days behind him.

[Yogi]

I fail to see how people give ali massive aclaim and praise for beating an old undertrained ring rusty liston and people give tyson no credit for beating an old undertrained ring rust larry holmes . If anything tyson's victory over holmes means a lot more because holmes had a lot more left than liston because years later holmes gave a prime holyfield a tough fight and beat top contenders ray mercer and olver mccall . Its double standards if you ask me .

Dumb comparision!

Liston may not have been in the best of shape for the first Ali fight, but going into that fight he was coming off of two devastating first round knockouts over the former champion, Floyd Patterson (and one just over a half a year previous to the Ali fight), was thought of as one of the greatest Heavyweights in history at that time (Aug '63 issue of The Ring has comparisions between Liston and Louis for that #1 spot), was only 32 or 33 years old at the oldest, and with the odds being about 7 to 1 was an overwhelming favourite to defeat Ali in the fight...

Holmes was inactive for nearly the last two years, was coming off two losses to a fighter coming up in divisions, was nearly 39 years old and going into was obviously well past his best according to the observers, was a heavy underdog against Tyson, and even Tyson himself is quoted as saying Holmes was an "old man" going into the fight whose "career is unquestionably over", "he's had his era", etc.

One victory by Ali was a huge upset win over the reigning terror in the Heavyweight division and was for the world championship, which is always a big win in and of itself no matter who the title is being won from. Tyson's win was a mere title defense against a fighter who had obviously had seen better days and was given very little chance of winning...Regardless of what Liston & Holmes went on to do afterwards, Ali's win over Liston is on a few completely different levels than what Tyson's win over Holmes meant.

[{BrownBomber}]

Dumb comparision!

Liston may not have been in the best of shape for the first Ali fight, but going into that fight he was coming off of two devastating first round knockouts over the former champion, Floyd Patterson (and one just over a half a year previous to the Ali fight), was thought of as one of the greatest Heavyweights in history at that time (Aug '63 issue of The Ring has comparisions between Liston and Louis for that #1 spot), was only 32 or 33 years old at the oldest, and with the odds being about 7 to 1 was an overwhelming favourite to defeat Ali in the fight...

Holmes was inactive for nearly the last two years, was coming off two losses to a fighter coming up in divisions, was nearly 39 years old and going into was obviously well past his best according to the observers, was a heavy underdog against Tyson, and even Tyson himself is quoted as saying Holmes was an "old man" going into the fight whose "career is unquestionably over", "he's had his era", etc.

One victory by Ali was a huge upset win over the reigning terror in the Heavyweight division and was for the world championship, which is always a big win in and of itself no matter who the title is being won from. Tyson's win was a mere title defense against a fighter who had obviously had seen better days and was given very little chance of winning...Regardless of what Liston & Holmes went on to do afterwards, Ali's win over Liston is on a few completely different levels than what Tyson's win over Holmes meant.

well.....that about kills this argument....

[WindUpMerchant]

I have read reports that Liston was in the 34-35 range when he fought Ali. Both fights were fixed mate.

[wmute]

liston-clay: liston was the HW champion, after brutalizing the previous one and the entire division)

tyson-holmes: holmes just lost twice (split, IMO) with a LHW moving up

[yrrej]

Because Liston, like Tyson, intimidated people without ever laying a glove on them. Many true heavyweights could have given Tyson a run for his money...when he was good. But they were to cowardly. Same with Liston.

[Southpaw16]

Dumb comparision!

Liston may not have been in the best of shape for the first Ali fight, but going into that fight he was coming off of two devastating first round knockouts over the former champion, Floyd Patterson (and one just over a half a year previous to the Ali fight), was thought of as one of the greatest Heavyweights in history at that time (Aug '63 issue of The Ring has comparisions between Liston and Louis for that #1 spot), was only 32 or 33 years old at the oldest, and with the odds being about 7 to 1 was an overwhelming favourite to defeat Ali in the fight...

Holmes was inactive for nearly the last two years, was coming off two losses to a fighter coming up in divisions, was nearly 39 years old and going into was obviously well past his best according to the observers, was a heavy underdog against Tyson, and even Tyson himself is quoted as saying Holmes was an "old man" going into the fight whose "career is unquestionably over", "he's had his era", etc.

One victory by Ali was a huge upset win over the reigning terror in the Heavyweight division and was for the world championship, which is always a big win in and of itself no matter who the title is being won from. Tyson's win was a mere title defense against a fighter who had obviously had seen better days and was given very little chance of winning...Regardless of what Liston & Holmes went on to do afterwards, Ali's win over Liston is on a few completely different levels than what Tyson's win over Holmes meant.

Well said....

[butterfly1964]

Dumb comparision!

Liston may not have been in the best of shape for the first Ali fight, but going into that fight he was coming off of two devastating first round knockouts over the former champion, Floyd Patterson (and one just over a half a year previous to the Ali fight), was thought of as one of the greatest Heavyweights in history at that time (Aug '63 issue of The Ring has comparisions between Liston and Louis for that #1 spot), was only 32 or 33 years old at the oldest, and with the odds being about 7 to 1 was an overwhelming favourite to defeat Ali in the fight...

Holmes was inactive for nearly the last two years, was coming off two losses to a fighter coming up in divisions, was nearly 39 years old and going into was obviously well past his best according to the observers, was a heavy underdog against Tyson, and even Tyson himself is quoted as saying Holmes was an "old man" going into the fight whose "career is unquestionably over", "he's had his era", etc.

One victory by Ali was a huge upset win over the reigning terror in the Heavyweight division and was for the world championship, which is always a big win in and of itself no matter who the title is being won from. Tyson's win was a mere title defense against a fighter who had obviously had seen better days and was given very little chance of winning...Regardless of what Liston & Holmes went on to do afterwards, Ali's win over Liston is on a few completely different levels than what Tyson's win over Holmes meant.

i was gonna say the same thing, but you said it for me.