Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Szef]

How was he a natural middleweight when he made his debut at light heavy or heavyweight?

And with all due respect, a win over a past prime Holyfield, a win over an injured Vitali after being way behind and a win over Tua is hardly the stuff of legends and certainly not enough for a place in the hall of fame by any stretch of the imagination.

He started as a MW.

As for the second part, we can agree to disagree. I think he is HOF worthy, you think he's not. That's cool.

[LacedUp]

He started as a MW.

As for the second part, we can agree to disagree. I think he is HOF worthy, you think he's not. That's cool.

There's nothing to agree or disagree about. It would be pointless to have a HOF if everyone that held a belt or had one or two OK wins got inducted.

[BigAlexSand]

Frazier was the only boxer to really put up a fight against Ali... Though the 3rd fight between the two went down in the history books and watching it is watching two men fight for their lives... Frazier was a true champ, great individual, and an ATG...

[BigAlexSand]

You keep forgetting about "The Joe Louis show - who's next? A bartender or the cab driver?"

When an individual talks slanders Joe Louis, Doesn't know **** about boxing!!!! Joe Louis was a monster in an era that most individuals wouldn't even be relevant.... This man was from an era of some of the strongest individuals world wide.

Now I understand how such an ignorant question like "is Joe Frazier an ATG"

[Szef]

When an individual talks slanders Joe Louis, Doesn't know **** about boxing!!!! Joe Louis was a monster in an era that most individuals wouldn't even be relevant.... This man was from an era of some of the strongest individuals world wide.

Now I understand how such an ignorant question like "is Joe Frazier an ATG"

Yeah let's pretend like Jou Louis hasn't fought taxi drivers.. After all, term "bum of the month" came from somewhere.

Now get lost

[Targaryen]

Frazier won the lineal heavyweight title by beating Muhammed Ali.

Wlad won it hugging Alexander Povetkin.

[Ray Corso]

Just another hater....................lack of knowledge to determine whose a great fighter and whose a favorite fighter.
I never heard anyone degrade Joe Frazier, he was a likeable man with a big heart and when he fought he gave everything he had and his career was a huge success. This OP looks at a loss as a disgrace he does this because he has no idea what getting in the ring is all about!
Just another hater...................... Ray.

[Szef]

Just another hater....................lack of knowledge to determine whose a great fighter and whose a favorite fighter.
I never heard anyone degrade Joe Frazier, he was a likeable man with a big heart and when he fought he gave everything he had and his career was a huge success. This OP looks at a loss as a disgrace he does this because he has no idea what getting in the ring is all about!
Just another hater...................... Ray.

I don't hate him FFS...

I just don't think he is an ATG fighter, that's all.

[Weltschmerz]

Frazier's opponents after beating Ali in their first fight were far from impressive (excluding his other fights with Ali and Foreman). Frazier literally avoided strong opponents at the time like Lyle, Shavers, Norton. Frazier ducked some big punchers of his era.

In reality folks, he instead fought bums lets be honest, before Foreman dismantles him in brutal fashion. The rest of the story from there on we know.

Szef99 has a valid question in other words. His career standout win over a post-prime Ali is what he's got on his resume that truly matters if you guys wanna talk hard facts.

[Ray Corso]

Oscar Bonavena (2)
Eddie Machen
Doug Jones
G. Chuvalo
Buster Mathis
Jerry Quarry (2)
Jimmy Ellis (2)
Ali (3)
Forman (2)

heres 15 very good fights all against ranked and poplular fighters whose management was willing to put up money to get the fights made!

What makes you think that Shavers didn't want Frazier?

First off try to understand that management and promotion make the fights. Rarely does a fighter deal with opponents.
Fans today have a false blueprint from Mayweather and Klitz bros. who are in charge of picking their opponents.
When fighters gave Joe a good fight and the fans behind the other fighters were going to "pay to see it" then it was done.
The fans today just don't understand that a network fight money was a ghuge lift but the "live gate" meant everything. without the live gate their would be NO TV money!

szef99 ofcourse you hate him, why bring this up at all, the man just passed away and he is acknowldeged as an ATG and your here to stir a pot!!!
Theres no other reason, whats so amazing about your opinion of Frazier?
Should boxing people reconsider his position off your opinion thats based on what.......................losses to other ATG's? Enough of this BS, whats next was Hagler really a true Middleweight Champ, could he survive against Calzaghe? hahahaha.........time for lunch! Ray