Comments Thread For: “Fighting Words” - Adonis, Kovalev & The Power of Power

[umop-ap!sdn]

Stevenso Ward is a good match to make. Ward's boxing skill+speed would be a good test against Adonis's boxing skill+power. Would expect Ward to win that one though, although Adonis does have a legitimate chance at an upset.

[Mr. David]

It kinda sucks that Adonis is so blatantly afraid of fighting Kovalev. I really hope the fans and media and pressure him to take the fight we all want to see. Kovalev has no problem taking it.

Kovalev beat Shilak en DosRounds.
Adonis is scared to fight Kovalev because he knows he'll go to sleep en DosRounds!

I wouldn't describe Adonis as being afraid to fight Kovalev. For one, no offer has been made yet. No negotiations have begun.

Beyond that, the dude's 36 and hasn't quite earned big money yet, so he's looking toward bouts that would earn him that big money.

With that said, I desperately want to see Stevenson-Kovalev, and I don't want to be made to wait too long for it. I want it to happen while it means something, unlike what January's bout will be between Jean Pascal and Lucian Bute.

-David

[King_]

I don't understand the first part of this article.

So are you saying a boxer with power can't finish with an undefeated career and be willing to fight the best? Not every guy with power is a straight up slugger who's going to get KOd eventually because all they know how to do is mindlessy move forward and defend with their faces and don't know how to box

[Mr. David]

I don't understand the first part of this article.

So are you saying a boxer with power can't finish with an undefeated career and be willing to fight the best? Not every guy with power is a straight up slugger who's going to get KOd eventually because all they know how to do is mindlessy move forward and defend with their faces and don't know how to box

I didn't say anything about a fighter not being willing to fight the best. Just that everyone runs into their kryptonite eventually — and that's the same for pretty much all fighters, not just power punchers.

I also didn't say anything about "straight up sluggers" or "mindlessly mov[ing] forward and defend[ing] with their faces."

I can see spots where I could've rephrased or clarified things, but I wasn't at all saying the above.

Thanks for reading, and for the feedback!
-David

[Hougigo]

I wouldn't describe Adonis as being afraid to fight Kovalev. For one, no offer has been made yet. No negotiations have begun.

Beyond that, the dude's 36 and hasn't quite earned big money yet, so he's looking toward bouts that would earn him that big money.

With that said, I desperately want to see Stevenson-Kovalev, and I don't want to be made to wait too long for it. I want it to happen while it means something, unlike what January's bout will be between Jean Pascal and Lucian Bute.

-David

The dude wants money, we get that.
As for him being afraid, I think it has a lot to do with last night with the whole Hopkins/Froch shtick.

[edgarg]

By far the best line that David has ever written, I mean the very first sentence- even though it's based on Lord Acton's famous quote.

I was almost tempted to read further but happily I refrained. Why spoil it the feeling it gave me.

[King_]

I didn't say anything about a fighter not being willing to fight the best. Just that everyone runs into their kryptonite eventually — and that's the same for pretty much all fighters, not just power punchers.

I also didn't say anything about "straight up sluggers" or "mindlessly mov[ing] forward and defend[ing] with their faces."

I can see spots where I could've rephrased or clarified things, but I wasn't at all saying the above.

Thanks for reading, and for the feedback!
-David

Mainly I was referring to the sentence where you said all will fall and it not stopping us from watching in the interim- I agree typically most fighters run into their kryptonite, but I took it as you saying it always happens. I don't think we should assume every guy will lose at some point and not have the chance to retire undefeated.

I know you didn't say the straight up sluggers thing... But many times people get confused when they see power and automatically assume said puncher with power is a brawler, etc. It just kind of sounded like you were among those classifying them as brawlers because those type of fighters, out of most- usually meet their match/kryptonite.... Hence me thinking you're implying Kovalev, for example is expected to lose at some point because he's a brawler (not saying he will or won't lose)

As for willing to fight the best: you didn't say that, with what I clarified above and how a lot of fighters retire undefeated but with obvious inflated records.... I was just pointing out how it's not out of the realm of possibility for a world class guy to retire undefeated while fighting all of the top guys- which would be guys remembered as some of the best of their era/ever if they fit that criteria obviously (guys like Ward, Golovkin, Kovalev and any other undefeated top fighter who wants to build their legacy by fighting the best have the opportunity to do this, in a perfect world)


No problem and no disrespect to you or your article- I enjoy your pieces, I might of been reading between the lines a bit much

[Mr. David]

By far the best line that David has ever written, I mean the very first sentence- even though it's based on Lord Acton's famous quote.

I was almost tempted to read further but happily I refrained. Why spoil it the feeling it gave me.

Hey Edgar, please private message me your phone number and a good time to reach you.

[Mr. David]

Mainly I was referring to the sentence where you said all will fall and it not stopping us from watching in the interim- I agree typically most fighters run into their kryptonite, but I took it as you saying it always happens. I don't think we should assume every guy will lose at some point and not have the chance to retire undefeated.

I know you didn't say the straight up sluggers thing... But many times people get confused when they see power and automatically assume said puncher with power is a brawler, etc. It just kind of sounded like you were among those classifying them as brawlers because those type of fighters, out of most- usually meet their match/kryptonite.... Hence me thinking you're implying Kovalev, for example is expected to lose at some point because he's a brawler (not saying he will or won't lose)

As for willing to fight the best: you didn't say that, with what I clarified above and how a lot of fighters retire undefeated but with obvious inflated records.... I was just pointing out how it's not out of the realm of possibility for a world class guy to retire undefeated while fighting all of the top guys- which would be guys remembered as some of the best of their era/ever if they fit that criteria obviously (guys like Ward, Golovkin, Kovalev and any other undefeated top fighter who wants to build their legacy by fighting the best have the opportunity to do this, in a perfect world)


No problem and no disrespect to you or your article- I enjoy your pieces, I might of been reading between the lines a bit much

No worries, dude! I'm not at all above reproach or criticism, and in fact I welcome it. When you put together 2,000 to 3,000 words for these pieces each week, not all of 'em are going to be perfect, and I like to know where I might have been imprecise or incorrect, or even if I'm being unfair or knee-jerk with my opinions.

Like I said, I can definitely see the elements that could've been fine-tuned in the opening paragraphs. Looking back, I could've just cut the second graf and gone straight into the third. I hope it didn't take away too much from the rest of the article.

Thanks again, and thanks for the good words.

-David

EDIT: And as to the substance of what you're saying, I do believe that nearly every fighter will be defeated someday — though sometimes it's a product of time and diminishing capabilities. Power punchers inevitably find someone who isn't intimidated, who executes their strategy well, or who just has a great night. I think Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield against Tyson, or Bernard Hopkins against Tito Trinidad, or Cory Spinks against Ricardo Mayorga.

I know those aren't apples to apples comparisons, but it's the kind of thing I had in my head while I was writing. I think we could see Golovkin beat Sergio Martinez, and I think we could see Sergio beat Golovkin. But ultimately a fighter will bite off more than he can chew, or just meet someone better.

[King_]

No worries, dude! I'm not at all above reproach or criticism, and in fact I welcome it. When you put together 2,000 to 3,000 words for these pieces each week, not all of 'em are going to be perfect, and I like to know where I might have been imprecise or incorrect, or even if I'm being unfair or knee-jerk with my opinions.

Like I said, I can definitely see the elements that could've been fine-tuned in the opening paragraphs. I hope it didn't take away too much from the rest of the article.

Thanks again, and thanks for the good words.

-David

EDIT: And as to the substance of what you're saying, I do believe that nearly every fighter will be defeated someday — though sometimes it's a product of time and diminishing capabilities. Power punchers inevitably find someone who isn't intimidated, who executes their strategy well, or who just has a great night. I think Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield against Tyson, or Bernard Hopkins against Tito Trinidad, or Cory Spinks against Ricardo Mayorga.

I know those aren't apples to apples comparisons, but it's the kind of thing I had in my head while I was writing. I think we could see Golovkin beat Sergio Martinez, and I think we could see Sergio beat Golovkin. But ultimately a fighter will bite off more than he can chew, or just meet someone better.

Absolutely- usually that does indeed happen. I guess I'm just making the case for some of these guys: that if they DO indeed retire at the right time before their health diminishes- but manage to fight the best and everyone they need to, they have great chances to be known as some of the best ever, at least of their era/divisions (obviously losing doesn't necessarily mean no potential ATG-status)

I.e: Ward beating Golovkin, moving up and taking out Kovalev, Adonis- Golovkin beating Martinez, Ward, froch, - and never having been defeated, while fighting all or any "legacy" fights possible. Etc

Obvious this is wishful thinking, and again, you're right- In this sport, that's not likely to happen.... But personally I can't assume anything until it happens and have to just wait it out and give some of these guys time to stamp their legacies. A lot of guys in today's scene have their Legacy/ATG/Career status in their own hands. Lomachenko and Rigo for example, at the paces they're going/plan on going have the sky being the limit and control their own destinies (barring out of the ring, promotional issues, etc) a lot can go wrong, and I'm looking far ahead into the future but due some of these guys drive and hunger now a days, I will give them the benefit of the doubt before assuming potential losses and give them a chance to do something special.


It didn't take away from the article and I'm not saying you're saying the opposite of what I'm saying or anything. Slight misread/misunderstand at first from me, but just giving my somewhat-off topic opinion