Jack Johnson is no hero

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  • Bombardier
    D-Fens Foster
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    #1

    Jack Johnson is no hero

    Based on what I've heard about Unforgivable Blackness from Ken Burns and others, it appears that Jack Johnson will be portrayed as an arrogant yet ultimately noble man. I have some issues with this.

    There is no doubt that Johnson was oppressed because of his race, and was betrayed by his government and indicted on phony charges because the general public did not want a black heavyweight champion, especially one that was so arrogant. This, however, does not make him a good person. Jack Johnson was notorious for horrendously beating his girlfriends. I don't maen he lost his temper once and did something he later regretted...I mean he brutally beat these girls over and over and never learned his lesson. This is not something that should be celebrated.

    Interestingly enough, the only reason the feds could nail Johnon on the Mann act was because one of his old girlfriends that he beat around was so ticked off that she said whatever the government wanted to hear.

    He wasn't even an advocate for African-American rights. Johnson had no interest in advancing the interests of African-Americans...he was only interested in himself. He refused to fight any other black challengers after he won the title because he knew that a white audience would not pay to see to black men fight for the title. In his later years he was always openly critical of other black boxing superstars, most notably Joe Louis. He always predicted that Louis would lose his fights and always made a point of criticizing his skills.

    Was Johnson a great fighter? Yes. Was he railroaded by his own government? Absolutely. But was he a man worth honouring? No way, at least not as much as Burns appears to be doing.
    Last edited by Bombardier; 01-17-2005, 03:22 PM.
  • dansweeney
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    #2
    good points, its funny how everyone is jumping on his bandwagon, the guy fought a 100 years ago, how does anyone alive now know what he was really like, from what ive read he is a self serving ahole, now they want to honor him

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    • Sir_Jose
      El Guapo
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      #3
      Yes Jack Johnson deseves to be celabrated. We cant even comprehend the stuff he had to overcome and still he made it to the top, only to have an entire section of the country try there hardest to bring him down when he made.

      Your biggest problem with him seems to be that he hit his women. Well I hate to break it to you, but back then in 1913 hitting your woman was not considered out of line. Thats the honest truth it was a different era.

      You also bring up that Johnson was not "an advocate for African-American rights". Again I hate to break it to you, but there were no such things at the time when Johnson was in his hey day. Even the thought of African-Americans having equal rights didn't come along till decades later.


      You try and critasize him for only fighting white guys, but what you fail to realize is that black men also wanted him to fight and beat up white men. They lived through him. Also check Joe Louis record its 95% white guys for this same reason.

      Johnson deserves every honor that comes his way.

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      • Bombardier
        D-Fens Foster
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        #4
        Originally posted by jose
        Your biggest problem with him seems to be that he hit his women. Well I hate to break it to you, but back then in 1913 hitting your woman was not considered out of line. Thats the honest truth it was a different era.
        Everyone on this forum condemns Jack Dempsey (rightfully, by the way) for being racist, even though it was a "different era", as you put it, and pretty much every white guy was racist. Doesn't make it right. Plus I make pains to mention that Johnson brutally beat his women. He didn't just slap them now and then, as I'm sure a lot of husbands did at the time, as you say.

        Originally posted by jose
        You also bring up that Johnson was not "an advocate for African-American rights". Again I hate to break it to you, but there were no such things at the time when Johnson was in his hey day. Even the thought of African-Americans having equal rights didn't come along till decades later.
        You are way way wrong here. Read your damn history, for god's sakes. Read about W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington. These guys were advocating for black rights at the SAME time that Johnson was fighting. There were guys who were doing so even earlier. The late 19th century and early 20th century were full of black activists.

        Originally posted by jose
        You try and critasize him for only fighting white guys, but what you fail to realize is that black men also wanted him to fight and beat up white men. They lived through him. Also check Joe Louis record its 95% white guys for this same reason.
        This just makes Johnson an even bigger jerk for thinking only about himself when so many other people were looking up to him. And Joe Louis fought only white guys because the same racial problems existed in his time. Only after WW2 did the public start accepting other black challengers.

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        • Sir_Jose
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          #5
          Originally posted by Bombardier
          Everyone on this forum condemns Jack Dempsey (rightfully, by the way) for being racist, even though it was a "different era", as you put it, and pretty much every white guy was racist. Doesn't make it right. Plus I make pains to mention that Johnson brutally beat his women. He didn't just slap them now and then, as I'm sure a lot of husbands did at the time, as you say.


          You are way way wrong here. Read your damn history, for god's sakes. Read about W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington. These guys were advocating for black rights at the SAME time that Johnson was fighting. There were guys who were doing so even earlier. The late 19th century and early 20th century were full of black activists.


          This just makes Johnson an even bigger jerk for thinking only about himself when so many other people were looking up to him. And Joe Louis fought only white guys because the same racial problems existed in his time. Only after WW2 did the public start accepting other black challengers.

          If someone wants to honor Jack Dempsey I have no problem with that. The part about Dempsey being a racist comes in when people bring up him refusing to fight worthy black challengers.

          I said that wrong. It was not the "idea" of course the idea of equal rights have been there since the very begining of time. I was talking more about a real movement to get equal rights that did not come along till decades later. You certianly can not blame him for not being politically active during this time even though in his own way he was by what he did in the ring.

          What your not getting is that blacks wanted him to fight and beat up whites more than any other group. This was a way he could do his part.

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          • dodge
            Corprate rock still sux
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            #6
            Interesting thread.

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            • LuKahnLi
              The Warrior Sage
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              #7
              I dunno, I am gonna watch the doco. I didn't know Johnson beat his girlfriends.

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              • dodge
                Corprate rock still sux
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                #8
                Is that on tonight?

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                • Sir_Jose
                  El Guapo
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by dodge
                  Is that on tonight?

                  Yes its a 4 hour series on PBS. Its gonna be broken up into 2 parts the first part will be shown tonight the second tommarow.

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                  • Johnny_Rocket
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                    #10
                    Drinking and beating your wives were very common occurances in those days (especially if you were a boxer; exposed to drinking, **********s, ********, bad childhood, taken advantage by white promoters) so he shouldnt be considered evil due to those certain actions.
                    As for the whole him being critical of Joe Louis, I think that was due to the fact that Joe Louis sought the white man's approval. He wouldnt gamble, or be photographed with women or a drink in his hand, he was the opposite of what Jack Johnson was. Jack didnt care about how he was viewed throught the eyes of the white man. He wasn't trying to please them he was trying to be who he wanted to be, and I think that is why he is celebrated because he showed millions of black people that they don't have to conform to the white man's world...they can be whoever they want.
                    I also believe that Jack Johnson wasn't trying to be a hero on purpose...he was just simply trying to make the most outta life, and on the way affected an entire nation and secured his spot in history the first black heavyweight champion, and one of the greatest boxers ever for his time.
                    Last edited by Johnny_Rocket; 01-17-2005, 06:21 PM.

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