Originally posted by LacedUp
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Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?
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Originally posted by pigsfly View Postken Norton fought the greater competition. shavers, foreman, holmes, ali (yes ali was past prime) Jimmy Young, Quarry.
nortons best wins are young, quarry, Cobb (cobb who really beat buster douglas ko'd shavers. cobb had an all time chin and was one tough sob)
not to mention that norton gave A prime holmes hell. took him to hell and back...........when has wlad even fought someone like a prime holmes?
YES ken nortons (resume) is greater then wlads........i go by level competition. wlads competition is just too poor...........
Add to the fact that Norton often tried to be more like Joe Frazier than to be the true Ken Norton, he never really came out of the Frazier shell. He also lost when he stepped up, e.g against Holmes, Foreman, Shavers, Quarry etc. He was also knocked out early in his career.
Norton probably won against Ali the third time, but Ali was way past his prime at that stage. I think Norton probably edges in top 20 of all times. Wlad is somewhere around 13-16 in my book.Last edited by LacedUp; 10-12-2013, 02:36 PM.
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Originally posted by Weltschmerz View PostAnd all of your petty arguments are flushed down the toilet, since you have no 'proof'. You completely ducked my point. Tough luck.
And how did I duck your point? I met you head on and explained a number of ways of how you can determine greatness of fighters.
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Originally posted by LacedUp View PostI'm not hating on Norton or anything, but he wasn't an Elite fighter. He was seen as an opponent when he fought Ali the first time, broke Ali's jaw and made a name for himself. I can't disagree with the fact that he fought better competition, because he did. But it comes down to what you did your era, and Wlad has clearly done more in his era than Norton did in his. You can't argue with that.
Add to the fact that Norton often tried to be more like Joe Frazier than to be the true Ken Norton, he never really came out of the Frazier shell. He also lost when he stepped up, e.g against Holmes, Foreman, Shavers, Quarry etc. He was also knocked out early in his career.
Norton probably won against Ali the third time, but Ali was way past his prime at that stage. I think Norton probably edges in top 20 of all times. Wlad is somewhere around 13-16 in my book.
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Originally posted by Weltschmerz View PostI don't believe anybody defeats Wlad today, not even a Lennox Lewis pushing 50. But the three defeats Wlad had, to which extent do they damage his rep as an ATG HW?
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Originally posted by Weltschmerz View PostName 13-16 HW's above Wlad.
Then we can start talking about Walcott, Langford, Sullivan, Fitzsimmons etc. to a lot of people these guys would be higher. And I can see both sides of the argument.
But Wlad is not top 10, and certainly not top 5 as some people criminally claim he could be.Last edited by LacedUp; 10-12-2013, 02:42 PM.
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Originally posted by LacedUp View PostSo it's about proof? Says the guy who said Samuel Peter is a better version of Joe Frazier. Learn how to sort your arguments out according to the points you make whether they suit your agenda or not. You have incredible double standards, as long as they suit with your ridiculous unconditional love for the K bros.
And how did I duck your point? I met you head on and explained a number of ways of how you can determine greatness of fighters.
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