My Top 20 All Time

[McGoorty]

Man, all Y'all trippin with all these prehistoric fighters listed as better than the best fighters of the last 40yrs.

Sheesh...

Says a guy with all those red boxes to his name.

[imperial1]

There's been a lot of discussion on who should be a top 20 ATG. Should Hopkins be there? Should he not? Most of you know my opinion on that but it got me thinking, it's about time I made a top 20 of my own. I've never done this before and it may be subject to change but here goes:

1. "Sugar" Ray Robinson
Just can't argue with how great SRR really was, welterweight champion, multiple time mw champion and almost the lhw champion of the world. Between 1940 and 1950, Ray had everything a fighter needs, immense power, exceptional speed, quick feet and cat like reflexes. he was a league above almost everyone he faced and in that decade, he faced just about everyone who mattered. The fact that he beat top ranked contenders and HOF champions post-prime just goes to show you how good he really was.

2. Muhammad "The Louisville Lip" Ali
The only fighter who comes close to SRR in terms of all round skill, at his best, from 1964-67 Ali was as unbeatable as any fighter has ever been. The heavyweight homage to Robinson Ali had it all, a great jab, a terrific right hand, reflexes never before seen in a heavyweight and instinctive, perfectly tuned footwork. Ali of the 70s was not quite as good but he added toughness, grit and a never say die attitude to his work, along with the scalps of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Shavers and co, the greatest resume in the division's history.

3. Willie "Will O' the Wisp" Pep
The single greatest defensive wizard in the sport, he'd make the likes of Whitaker and Mayweather look ordinary. Fleet footed and always exceptionally well conditioned, he danced rings around the featherweight division better than anyone else before or since. After his plane crash, he wasn't quite the same fighter, he was a tad slower, a little less of a dancer but just like Ali, he had to learn to go to war and he did, many, many times.

4. Henry "Homicide Hank" Armstrong
Armstrong was whirring machine of destruction, a man who never seemed to stop punching, no matter if he was fighting featherweights or middleweights. He had a great engine, exceptional power and the ability to adjust to his opponents. At his very best he almost held half the world titles on offer in the sport, a feat that would now seem impossible. He may not have been defensively savvy as Pep or as pretty to watch as Ali but he was equally as effective.

5. Benny Leonard "****** Wizard" Leonard
The greatest lightweight ever? Probably. In his prime...which seemed to go on forever, Leonard seemed to be unbeatable, he has it all, sped of foot and hand as well as the ability to fight off the front and back foot. He retired as an undefeated champion but sadly, like most fighters, he couldn't stay away and returned. If you catch footage of that version of Benny, it's a sad sight, not in the same supreme condition and never again as quick as he had been in his best years. One of the top 5 best fighters ever.

6. Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran
Easily one of my favourite fighters ever to watch, the man was a beast, snarling, growling and sometimes smiling like a psychopath, he ripped a whole in the lightweight division for almost a decade but some of his most memorable bouts came as high as 160lbs, just going to show you how good he really was. Duran was an offensive master but at his best he had underrated defense, the ability to duck and slip punches. His quit job against Leonard will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth, stopping him from being any higher in my list.

7. Joe "Brown Bomber" Louis
The second greatest heavyweight ever in my opinion, the longest reigning and one of the toughest too. Louis was a highly skilled operative in the ring, he didn't have the flair of an Ali or a Tyson, he was a lot more mechanical in the ring but he made up for it with undoubted ring smarts and great power. It's true that a lot of Louis' opposition in his long run were "bums" but he also fought his fair share of greats and HOFers, not all of them were heavyweights though, stopping him getting into my top 5.

8. Ezzard "Cincinnati Cobra" Charles
Famed as a heavyweight champion, Charles is amongst the best ever in three different divisions, a real rarity in the sport. He should have been light-heavyweight champion but was never given the chance, despite being no. 1 contender and holding victories over such men as Archie Moore and Sam Baroudi. But he finally got the recognition he wanted with his heavyweight title reign, beating the likes of Walcott and Louis and proving against Marciano, that even this late in his career, he was one of the best.

9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
SRL in just 40 fights has done more than what most fighters can dream of in over a 100 professional bouts. Leonard at his best was a highly skilled fighter who could tough it out with the best of them, as he proved against Duran, Hearns, Lolande and others. Leonard at his peak was a complete fighter with extremely high ring IQ, proven when well past his best, he traveled up to 160 and claimed the undisputed MW title from Hagler, one of the greatest victories in the 20th century.

10. Julio Cesar Chavez
Like Charles and Armstrong before him, Chavez can be accredited as being a great fighter, one of the absolute elite in a number of different divisions. When talking about great lightweights and great light-welterweights, it is impossible to mention the great JCC. The greatest Mexican fighter ever and a warrior with underrated boxing skills. He lacked the panache of contemporaries such as Whitaker, Leonard and Taylor but he made up for it with an unquestionable heart, a great chin and power. Chavez knew how to wear down an opponent and when the time was right, he could seriously damage them. A definite top 10.

11. Sam "Boston Tar Baby" Langford
12. Archie "The Old Mongoose" Moore
13. Mickey "Toy Bulldog" Walker
14. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
15. Harry "Pittsburgh Windmill" Greb
16. "Big" George Foreman
17. Jimmy "Mighty Atom" Wilde
18. "The Fighting Marine" Gene Tunney
19. "The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins
20. Joe "The Old Master" Gans
21. Carlos "Escopeta" Monzon
22. Joseph "Sandy" Saddler
23. "Pitssburgh Kid" Billy Conn
24. "Galveston Giant" Jack Johnson
25. Marcel "Casablanca Clouter" Cerdan
26. Dov-Ber Rosovsky AKA Barney Ross
27. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns
28. "The Easton Assassin" Larry Holmes
29. Eder "O Galo Do Ouro" Jofre
30. "Smokin'" Joe Frazier
31. Manny "PacMan" Pacquiao
32. "Sweet Pea" Pernell Whitaker
33. Tony Canzoneri
34. "The Brockton Blockbuster" Rocky Marciano
35. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles
36. Emile Griffith
37. Lennox "The Lion" Lewis
38. Jack "Manassa Mauler" Dempsey
39. Jake "Raging Bull" LaMotta
40. Evander "Real Deal" Holyfield
41. Oscar "Golden Boy" De La Hoya
42. "Baby Faced Assassin" Marco Antonio Barrera
43. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
44. "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather
45. "Iron" Mike Tyson
46. Roy Jones Jr
47. Erik "El Terrible" Morales
48. "El Flaco Explosivo" Alexis Arguello
49. James "Lights Out" Toney
50. "The Champ" Salvador Sanchez

Great list I would change a few slots but great list none the less

[soul_survivor]

A pretty good list but to not have Young Griffo in there anywhere is a crime and Les Darcy should be there too I feel but Griffos resume and the fact he is the greatest defensive genius of all time means he should be there... I believe he is top 20.... easy

Oops, just saw this.

I explained my reasoning for Griffo in your thread, just can't see him top 50, that would be crazy.

Les Darcy even less so. Why would you rank him so high? Any particular reason?

[Tom Cruise]

I firmly believe that Pacquaio and Mayweather have had better and more impressive careers than Hopkins and cant understand why so many have him above them both.

Anyone care to convince me otherwise?

[RED REP]

There's been a lot of discussion on who should be a top 20 ATG. Should Hopkins be there? Should he not? Most of you know my opinion on that but it got me thinking, it's about time I made a top 20 of my own. I've never done this before and it may be subject to change but here goes:

1. "Sugar" Ray Robinson
Just can't argue with how great SRR really was, welterweight champion, multiple time mw champion and almost the lhw champion of the world. Between 1940 and 1950, Ray had everything a fighter needs, immense power, exceptional speed, quick feet and cat like reflexes. he was a league above almost everyone he faced and in that decade, he faced just about everyone who mattered. The fact that he beat top ranked contenders and HOF champions post-prime just goes to show you how good he really was.

2. Muhammad "The Louisville Lip" Ali
The only fighter who comes close to SRR in terms of all round skill, at his best, from 1964-67 Ali was as unbeatable as any fighter has ever been. The heavyweight homage to Robinson Ali had it all, a great jab, a terrific right hand, reflexes never before seen in a heavyweight and instinctive, perfectly tuned footwork. Ali of the 70s was not quite as good but he added toughness, grit and a never say die attitude to his work, along with the scalps of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Shavers and co, the greatest resume in the division's history.

3. Willie "Will O' the Wisp" Pep
The single greatest defensive wizard in the sport, he'd make the likes of Whitaker and Mayweather look ordinary. Fleet footed and always exceptionally well conditioned, he danced rings around the featherweight division better than anyone else before or since. After his plane crash, he wasn't quite the same fighter, he was a tad slower, a little less of a dancer but just like Ali, he had to learn to go to war and he did, many, many times.

4. Henry "Homicide Hank" Armstrong
Armstrong was whirring machine of destruction, a man who never seemed to stop punching, no matter if he was fighting featherweights or middleweights. He had a great engine, exceptional power and the ability to adjust to his opponents. At his very best he almost held half the world titles on offer in the sport, a feat that would now seem impossible. He may not have been defensively savvy as Pep or as pretty to watch as Ali but he was equally as effective.

5. Benny Leonard "****** Wizard" Leonard
The greatest lightweight ever? Probably. In his prime...which seemed to go on forever, Leonard seemed to be unbeatable, he has it all, sped of foot and hand as well as the ability to fight off the front and back foot. He retired as an undefeated champion but sadly, like most fighters, he couldn't stay away and returned. If you catch footage of that version of Benny, it's a sad sight, not in the same supreme condition and never again as quick as he had been in his best years. One of the top 5 best fighters ever.

6. Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran
Easily one of my favourite fighters ever to watch, the man was a beast, snarling, growling and sometimes smiling like a psychopath, he ripped a whole in the lightweight division for almost a decade but some of his most memorable bouts came as high as 160lbs, just going to show you how good he really was. Duran was an offensive master but at his best he had underrated defense, the ability to duck and slip punches. His quit job against Leonard will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth, stopping him from being any higher in my list.

7. Joe "Brown Bomber" Louis
The second greatest heavyweight ever in my opinion, the longest reigning and one of the toughest too. Louis was a highly skilled operative in the ring, he didn't have the flair of an Ali or a Tyson, he was a lot more mechanical in the ring but he made up for it with undoubted ring smarts and great power. It's true that a lot of Louis' opposition in his long run were "bums" but he also fought his fair share of greats and HOFers, not all of them were heavyweights though, stopping him getting into my top 5.

8. Ezzard "Cincinnati Cobra" Charles
Famed as a heavyweight champion, Charles is amongst the best ever in three different divisions, a real rarity in the sport. He should have been light-heavyweight champion but was never given the chance, despite being no. 1 contender and holding victories over such men as Archie Moore and Sam Baroudi. But he finally got the recognition he wanted with his heavyweight title reign, beating the likes of Walcott and Louis and proving against Marciano, that even this late in his career, he was one of the best.

9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
SRL in just 40 fights has done more than what most fighters can dream of in over a 100 professional bouts. Leonard at his best was a highly skilled fighter who could tough it out with the best of them, as he proved against Duran, Hearns, Lolande and others. Leonard at his peak was a complete fighter with extremely high ring IQ, proven when well past his best, he traveled up to 160 and claimed the undisputed MW title from Hagler, one of the greatest victories in the 20th century.

10. Julio Cesar Chavez
Like Charles and Armstrong before him, Chavez can be accredited as being a great fighter, one of the absolute elite in a number of different divisions. When talking about great lightweights and great light-welterweights, it is impossible to mention the great JCC. The greatest Mexican fighter ever and a warrior with underrated boxing skills. He lacked the panache of contemporaries such as Whitaker, Leonard and Taylor but he made up for it with an unquestionable heart, a great chin and power. Chavez knew how to wear down an opponent and when the time was right, he could seriously damage them. A definite top 10.

11. Sam "Boston Tar Baby" Langford
12. Archie "The Old Mongoose" Moore
13. Mickey "Toy Bulldog" Walker
14. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
15. Harry "Pittsburgh Windmill" Greb
16. "Big" George Foreman
17. Jimmy "Mighty Atom" Wilde
18. "The Fighting Marine" Gene Tunney
19. "The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins
20. Joe "The Old Master" Gans
21. Carlos "Escopeta" Monzon
22. Joseph "Sandy" Saddler
23. "Pitssburgh Kid" Billy Conn
24. "Galveston Giant" Jack Johnson
25. Marcel "Casablanca Clouter" Cerdan
26. Dov-Ber Rosovsky AKA Barney Ross
27. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns
28. "The Easton Assassin" Larry Holmes
29. Eder "O Galo Do Ouro" Jofre
30. "Smokin'" Joe Frazier
31. Manny "PacMan" Pacquiao
32. "Sweet Pea" Pernell Whitaker
33. Tony Canzoneri
34. "The Brockton Blockbuster" Rocky Marciano
35. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles
36. Emile Griffith
37. Lennox "The Lion" Lewis
38. Jack "Manassa Mauler" Dempsey
39. Jake "Raging Bull" LaMotta
40. Evander "Real Deal" Holyfield
41. Oscar "Golden Boy" De La Hoya
42. "Baby Faced Assassin" Marco Antonio Barrera
43. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
44. "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather
45. "Iron" Mike Tyson
46. Roy Jones Jr
47. Erik "El Terrible" Morales
48. "El Flaco Explosivo" Alexis Arguello
49. James "Lights Out" Toney
50. "The Champ" Salvador Sanchez

Harry Greb at 15!!!!!!!!

What the ****!

[RED REP]

Yet you have Jimmy Wilde in your list? What's your basis for having Wilde in there? Out of curiosity.

A long list of fighters on your list are "old school" fighters from pre 1950.

1) Ray Robinson
2) Harry Greb
3) Sam Langford
4) Henry Armstrong
5) Muhammad Ali
6) Benny Leonard
7) Joe Louis
8) Willie Pep
9) Roberto Duran
10) Gene Tunney

[RED REP]

Harry Greb has to be locked for the top 5, if not higher. The guy has an unbelievable resume.

Harry Greb and Sam Langford have the greatest resumes ever. It's almost ******ic to look through their records, completely in awe!

I've got SRR, Greb and Langford a long way ahead of 4th place Armstrong!

[Jc8804]

There's been a lot of discussion on who should be a top 20 ATG. Should Hopkins be there? Should he not? Most of you know my opinion on that but it got me thinking, it's about time I made a top 20 of my own. I've never done this before and it may be subject to change but here goes:

1. "Sugar" Ray Robinson
Just can't argue with how great SRR really was, welterweight champion, multiple time mw champion and almost the lhw champion of the world. Between 1940 and 1950, Ray had everything a fighter needs, immense power, exceptional speed, quick feet and cat like reflexes. he was a league above almost everyone he faced and in that decade, he faced just about everyone who mattered. The fact that he beat top ranked contenders and HOF champions post-prime just goes to show you how good he really was.

2. Muhammad "The Louisville Lip" Ali
The only fighter who comes close to SRR in terms of all round skill, at his best, from 1964-67 Ali was as unbeatable as any fighter has ever been. The heavyweight homage to Robinson Ali had it all, a great jab, a terrific right hand, reflexes never before seen in a heavyweight and instinctive, perfectly tuned footwork. Ali of the 70s was not quite as good but he added toughness, grit and a never say die attitude to his work, along with the scalps of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Shavers and co, the greatest resume in the division's history.

3. Willie "Will O' the Wisp" Pep
The single greatest defensive wizard in the sport, he'd make the likes of Whitaker and Mayweather look ordinary. Fleet footed and always exceptionally well conditioned, he danced rings around the featherweight division better than anyone else before or since. After his plane crash, he wasn't quite the same fighter, he was a tad slower, a little less of a dancer but just like Ali, he had to learn to go to war and he did, many, many times.

4. Henry "Homicide Hank" Armstrong
Armstrong was whirring machine of destruction, a man who never seemed to stop punching, no matter if he was fighting featherweights or middleweights. He had a great engine, exceptional power and the ability to adjust to his opponents. At his very best he almost held half the world titles on offer in the sport, a feat that would now seem impossible. He may not have been defensively savvy as Pep or as pretty to watch as Ali but he was equally as effective.

5. Benny Leonard "****** Wizard" Leonard
The greatest lightweight ever? Probably. In his prime...which seemed to go on forever, Leonard seemed to be unbeatable, he has it all, sped of foot and hand as well as the ability to fight off the front and back foot. He retired as an undefeated champion but sadly, like most fighters, he couldn't stay away and returned. If you catch footage of that version of Benny, it's a sad sight, not in the same supreme condition and never again as quick as he had been in his best years. One of the top 5 best fighters ever.

6. Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran
Easily one of my favourite fighters ever to watch, the man was a beast, snarling, growling and sometimes smiling like a psychopath, he ripped a whole in the lightweight division for almost a decade but some of his most memorable bouts came as high as 160lbs, just going to show you how good he really was. Duran was an offensive master but at his best he had underrated defense, the ability to duck and slip punches. His quit job against Leonard will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth, stopping him from being any higher in my list.

7. Joe "Brown Bomber" Louis
The second greatest heavyweight ever in my opinion, the longest reigning and one of the toughest too. Louis was a highly skilled operative in the ring, he didn't have the flair of an Ali or a Tyson, he was a lot more mechanical in the ring but he made up for it with undoubted ring smarts and great power. It's true that a lot of Louis' opposition in his long run were "bums" but he also fought his fair share of greats and HOFers, not all of them were heavyweights though, stopping him getting into my top 5.

8. Ezzard "Cincinnati Cobra" Charles
Famed as a heavyweight champion, Charles is amongst the best ever in three different divisions, a real rarity in the sport. He should have been light-heavyweight champion but was never given the chance, despite being no. 1 contender and holding victories over such men as Archie Moore and Sam Baroudi. But he finally got the recognition he wanted with his heavyweight title reign, beating the likes of Walcott and Louis and proving against Marciano, that even this late in his career, he was one of the best.

9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
SRL in just 40 fights has done more than what most fighters can dream of in over a 100 professional bouts. Leonard at his best was a highly skilled fighter who could tough it out with the best of them, as he proved against Duran, Hearns, Lolande and others. Leonard at his peak was a complete fighter with extremely high ring IQ, proven when well past his best, he traveled up to 160 and claimed the undisputed MW title from Hagler, one of the greatest victories in the 20th century.

10. Julio Cesar Chavez
Like Charles and Armstrong before him, Chavez can be accredited as being a great fighter, one of the absolute elite in a number of different divisions. When talking about great lightweights and great light-welterweights, it is impossible to mention the great JCC. The greatest Mexican fighter ever and a warrior with underrated boxing skills. He lacked the panache of contemporaries such as Whitaker, Leonard and Taylor but he made up for it with an unquestionable heart, a great chin and power. Chavez knew how to wear down an opponent and when the time was right, he could seriously damage them. A definite top 10.

11. Sam "Boston Tar Baby" Langford
12. Archie "The Old Mongoose" Moore
13. Mickey "Toy Bulldog" Walker
14. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
15. Harry "Pittsburgh Windmill" Greb
16. "Big" George Foreman
17. Jimmy "Mighty Atom" Wilde
18. "The Fighting Marine" Gene Tunney
19. "The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins
20. Joe "The Old Master" Gans
21. Carlos "Escopeta" Monzon
22. Joseph "Sandy" Saddler
23. "Pitssburgh Kid" Billy Conn
24. "Galveston Giant" Jack Johnson
25. Marcel "Casablanca Clouter" Cerdan
26. Dov-Ber Rosovsky AKA Barney Ross
27. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns
28. "The Easton Assassin" Larry Holmes
29. Eder "O Galo Do Ouro" Jofre
30. "Smokin'" Joe Frazier
31. Manny "PacMan" Pacquiao
32. "Sweet Pea" Pernell Whitaker
33. Tony Canzoneri
34. "The Brockton Blockbuster" Rocky Marciano
35. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles
36. Emile Griffith
37. Lennox "The Lion" Lewis
38. Jack "Manassa Mauler" Dempsey
39. Jake "Raging Bull" LaMotta
40. Evander "Real Deal" Holyfield
41. Oscar "Golden Boy" De La Hoya
42. "Baby Faced Assassin" Marco Antonio Barrera
43. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
44. "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather
45. "Iron" Mike Tyson
46. Roy Jones Jr
47. Erik "El Terrible" Morales
48. "El Flaco Explosivo" Alexis Arguello
49. James "Lights Out" Toney
50. "The Champ" Salvador Sanchez

Hopkins is top 35.
Rjj is top 30.

You got roy way to far down the list.

[IMDAZED]

Yikes is all I can say.

[Eff Pandas]

These kinda ATG lists always read like "My top 20 Superhero's" to me & I feel like guys have missed a bunch of shows & are just repeating popular opinion more than their opinion or using their own judgement after watching every Willie Pep or Joe Gans clip they could find.