whos face the better competition, nathan cleverly or Sergey kovalov?

[LacedUp]

Cleverly isn't no powderpuff he is a a good puncher. But he is stepping into the ring with literally a guy who could kill you. I agree with you there he does have great heart and if he loses (Because i'm not fully counting him out). He will go out on his shield and like i said before if he fights like a champion but loses i will give him his dues because for one i have always been a critic of home grown fighters. Especially with the likes of Cleverly, Khan and Burns.

The Chilemba is a completely different discussion, lmao. IMO chilemba had bellews number. He didnt really do much compared to the first one and chilemba in my eyes was robbed. obviously we could discuss this on further length but we are talking cleverly-Kovalev.

Btw Laced Up, i have to do something that many people on this site dont do. And that is to give the person you are opposed to in a discussion their dues. You really are a knowledgeable lad. Even though i dont mix well with haye fans. I have to give you my upmost respect brother. Stay Blessed

*** it, I'm just excited this fight is happening. The LHW division is really on fire imo. You have guys like Shumenov, Bute, Pascal, Hopkins, Cleverly, Kovalev, Dawson, Stevenson and possibly Ward fighting it out for the belts. It's been in turmoil for a while, so as soon as they start fighting each other the better. We need one champion like in the good old days.

I think Chilemba was a spoiler and one of the least entertaining guys on the scene today. I put him up there with guys like Devon Alexander. Slightly less entertaining than watching grass grow. Either way, I wouldn't say robbed is the correct word. Imo a robbery is if you lose a fight you clearly won. Not one just by a round or two. But it's disputable, because even boxing referees view the scoring of boxing differently.

Thanks a lot for the kind words my man. I'm sure we'll get stuck into the discussions many times in the future.

[toshmurph]

Most guys back up against him. No one has really ever tried to stake the centre of the ring and try to back him up. I have my doubts about his ability to fight going backwards.

There's a reason for that, he's extremely strong as well as being a monster puncher! Cleverly isn't a big puncher he's a volume puncher! If Kovalev isn't fazed by Clev's punches then he's not backing him up!

Cleverly has a great chin but he was dazed a few times in the Bellew fight, so I don't see him holding up to Kovalevs punches

[BattleAxePurist]

Kovalev has a smooth flow about his punch delivery nothing forced or loaded up just throws and appears to carry heavy lumber mixed with good feets however he does keep his hands low and has suspect defense

Which is actually similar to Clev but he throws more volume with less pop but has the offense is my defense way so should make for high contact action dual

[Arsene Knows]

There's a reason for that, he's extremely strong as well as being a monster puncher! Cleverly isn't a big puncher he's a volume puncher! If Kovalev isn't fazed by Clev's punches then he's not backing him up!

Cleverly has a great chin but he was dazed a few times in the Bellew fight, so I don't see him holding up to Kovalevs punches

Yeah but people are too scared of his power it seems. Don't think Cleverly will be, you can negate his power by pushing him backwards. Backing up is ****** because he's deceptively quick and good at cutting the ring off.

Cleverly isn't a huge puncher but he has an authoritative jab which can keep guys at a distance. Cleverly is physically bigger and perhaps stronger. And as you said, he throws a lot and can keep you occupied.

The Lacy comparison is an interesting one made by Warren. Many people said Lacy would walk straight through Calzaghe because he couldn't punch. Didn't work out that way. Not that Kovalev is Lacy but you get my point. You don't necessarily need to be a huge puncher to push someone back.

[shenmue]

Yeah but people are too scared of his power it seems. Don't think Cleverly will be, you can negate his power by pushing him backwards. Backing up is ****** because he's deceptively quick and good at cutting the ring off.

Cleverly isn't a huge puncher but he has an authoritative jab which can keep guys at a distance. Cleverly is physically bigger and perhaps stronger. And as you said, he throws a lot and can keep you occupied.

The Lacy comparison is an interesting one made by Warren. Many people said Lacy would walk straight through Calzaghe because he couldn't punch. Didn't work out that way. Not that Kovalev is Lacy but you get my point. You don't necessarily need to be a huge puncher to push someone back.

all valid points, but it all depends on what happens when Kovalev lands a decent shot and how Cleverly takes it. It could force Clev to go backwards himself in defensive mode or it might give him confidence in backing Kovalev up and bossing the fight.

[HWChampion]

*** it, I'm just excited this fight is happening. The LHW division is really on fire imo. You have guys like Shumenov, Bute, Pascal, Hopkins, Cleverly, Kovalev, Dawson, Stevenson and possibly Ward fighting it out for the belts. It's been in turmoil for a while, so as soon as they start fighting each other the better. We need one champion like in the good old days.

I think Chilemba was a spoiler and one of the least entertaining guys on the scene today. I put him up there with guys like Devon Alexander. Slightly less entertaining than watching grass grow. Either way, I wouldn't say robbed is the correct word. Imo a robbery is if you lose a fight you clearly won. Not one just by a round or two. But it's disputable, because even boxing referees view the scoring of boxing differently.

Thanks a lot for the kind words my man. I'm sure we'll get stuck into the discussions many times in the future.

Same here my brother, im relishing that cleverly and kovalev are stepping up. If there was one LHW Belt was included we would be talking top tier contenders. Just like the good old days lol, but nevertheless the LHW division is an awesome and with ward coming up its going to be a very good and a tentative LHW division.

Chilemba is an eyesore to watch I'm glad the second had a winner because I couldn't go through a 3rd. I actually find Devon much more exciting than chilemba, but that may only be because when he fights it sounds like a poodle in the ring. Agreed again, not a robbery but a disputed decision.

No problem bro, I look forward very much to our future discussions and even better if Haye Rematches Wlad or fights Vitali.

P.S You said My Man and instantly I thought Denzel in American Gangster.

[Mikhnienko]

Cleverly has underrated power I think. He's not a powderpuff puncher by any means, though maybe not having 1 punch KO power (not many have, Kovalev is one), but anyone will tell you that if someone throws almost 100 punches per round at you, it will confuse you and throw you off the game. On top of that, he's not backing down, he seems to have great heart and a champions psyche and he's bigger and stronger.

Of course, i'm not saying Kovalev can not KO Cleverly, because that guy can KO anyone. But I just think it's unlikely due to the two fighters styles.

Hmm, even the second Bellew-Chilemba fight? That was a clear cut victory for Bellew. I can see the first fight maybe, but no matter how you put it, it was a close close fight. So that's not a robbery. I don't particularly remember anyone in Britain being robbed in a world title fight for the last 20 years. I could be mistaken though. The last one that comes to mind is probably Benn-Eubank II - but they were two british guys, and even that was a close fight. So I just don't think there's anything to back it up. And even though, since this is a WBO title fight, they will pick the judges.

Cleverly's handspeed and combination punching is very good but Kovalev's is no less, he can match Cleverly in both departments and with his edge in power i don't think Kovalev will have a problem exchanging with Nathan. I think Nathan's volume is going to be significantly reduced because of that and would be rather suprised if he didn't go into defensive mode early in the fight. I cannot see him successfully swarming Kovalev with volume and backing him up.

Kovalev's handspeed, footspeed/mobility and combination punching seems to get consistantly overlooked and all of them are 1st rate. Most importantly its what enables him to be successful with his power, without those things you're exploitable like Lacy or Cloud, Sergei isn't just a puncher.

[kiaba360]

I want to see how Kovalev reacts if he can't get Cleverly out of there early. I'm also interested in seeing if Cleverly will turn down his output and fight more cautiously.

[LacedUp]

Cleverly's handspeed and combination punching is very good but Kovalev's is no less, he can match Cleverly in both departments and with his edge in power i don't think Kovalev will have a problem exchanging with Nathan. I think Nathan's volume is going to be significantly reduced because of that and would be rather suprised if he didn't go into defensive mode early in the fight. I cannot see him successfully swarming Kovalev with volume and backing him up.

Kovalev's handspeed, footspeed/mobility and combination punching seems to get consistantly overlooked and all of them are 1st rate. Most importantly its what enables him to be successful with his power, without those things you're exploitable like Lacy or Cloud, Sergei isn't just a puncher.

Whilst I can totally appreciate that him being classified as a mere 'puncher' is incorrect and probably unjust, I have seen nothing to suggest that he can hang with Clev in the handspeed and combination department. This is not because it is not topnotch, but Cleverly's speed of hand and combination punching is very very unusual for a lightheavyweigt. Nor do I think his strategy will be to compete with Nathan on these two things. I fully expect Kovalev to try and stay on the outside for the first part of the fight, then stalk Clev down and hurt him with precise, hard punches. He'll come up short on the inside imo.

Maybe they are overlooked, but in his top fights, I haven't seen anything to suggest that these are his main assets, whereas they clearly are with Cleverly. Maybe this is because a lot of his fights are ending so early, so he can't showcase his talents. I doubt though that he'll KO Clev in 3-4 rounds so he should get plenty time to showcase his talents in this fight.

Basically, whoever fights to their strengths win.

[Citizen Koba]

That was my take as well. Cleverly is very very busy, in the Calzaghe mould. People used to say the same about Calzaghe as they are now with Cleverly, and this does remind abit of the Lacy-Calzaghe situation.



Lots of 'punchers' have great amateur records and experience. That certainly doesn't mean they are unbeatable. And even though he had a good amount of amateur fights, didn't he fight mainly at domestic and European level? Regardless, he has a very good style for the Pro game, because he's a devastating puncher. But I don't see how he can win on points against Cleverly who threw 1000 punches in his last fight.

And getting robbed? I don't know where this is coming from, I don't think fights in Britain are known to be crooked. The only title fight I can think of in recent times was Dirrell-Froch and no matter how you look at that fight, it was close.

I hate to bring in **** like compubox, but in fact averaged over several fights, Kovalev and Clev both throw a lot of punches for the weight (with Clev just throwing a couple more per round) and both land an identical number. The difference being of course that Kovalevs punches end fights whereas Clevs just score points. Clev would be wise not to try and win this fight with volume punching, cos he'll come off worst.

I would imagine Clev will attempt to keep his distance, in fact get on his bike, until the mid-rounds, and hope that Kovalev has stamina issues. Thing is I see him getting caught anyway, probably dropping a few rounds if he plays it like this, then being in the difficult position of having to play catch up.

As for robbery, well, I'm a Brit, and it goes on everywhere on earth. We may not be the worst culprits, but It'd be naive to assume that the BBBofC is any less corruptable than our politicians.

Look for example at the 4th round stoppage in the Kuziemski fight, after Nathan had been wobbled in rnd 3. Curiously the 'impartial' US Ref Mark Nelson is the son of 'impartial' US judge Dennis Nelson - also officiating, these 2 have also officiated in a coupla Clevs other fights, which surely raises questions in itself.

I have read post fight forum comments that indicate that Mark, the Ref, told Clev in his corner that 'you need to give me something' though I've been unable to substantiate this.

The Murat stoppage was also debatable in my eyes, despite Clev clearly being in the lead in both these fights it could be seen (especially in the Kuziemski fight) as an attempt to ensure that nothing 'unexpected' would spoil the party.

While in neither of these cases would I in any way say a robbery had been commited, it does suggest that decisions could be made to favour the home fighter. I have to wonder how it will be scored if Kovalev hurts Clev, but not enough to throw him completely off his game.