Defend Calzaghe's record

[Barry Halls]

at least u acknowledged it being a weak division

but ur comparisons to judah and taylor are ridiculous...

judah went on to become an undisputed welterweight champion and later a world champion at 140 as well, not to mention he's been the #1 contender at 140 twice in recent years...taylor went on to become the #1 contender for the wbc smw title and was an undisputed mw champion when pavlik beat him

lacy never amounted to anything after he lost to calzaghe which proves the fact he was never that good to begin with

Who has Judah ACTUALLY beaten since 2005? What has warranted him being a #1 contender at 140?

Who did JT beat after he got beat by Pavlik?
A certain shot Jeff Lacy.

I never said it was the same quality of wins. I meant that they had very uninspired careers after they were beat, which is true.

Jeff Lacy had a few very solid wins before he fought Calzaghe as well as a olympic amateur background.
Calzaghe was actually a big underdog in that fight.

As people love to talk about how b-hop, Mayweather and the likes "ruined" a fighter, could the same not be said about Lacy?
I don't think so necessarily, but it would go hand in hand with all the other dumb arguments that are being thrown around.

Fact of the matter is Cazlaghe beat a few decent fighters, he beat Kessler the clear #2 of the division and he beat B-hop while b-hop was still the kingpin at 175 and performing on a reasonable high level.
He remained undefeated.

He had a very good career and is a lock for the HOF.
He's the second greatest SMW of all time.

[-PANDA-]

Who has Judah ACTUALLY beaten since 2005? What has warranted him being a #1 contender at 140?

Who did JT beat after he got beat by Pavlik?
A certain shot Jeff Lacy.

I never said it was the same quality of wins. I meant that they had very uninspired careers after they were beat, which is true.

Jeff Lacy had a few very solid wins before he fought Calzaghe as well as a olympic amateur background.
Calzaghe was actually a big underdog in that fight.

As people love to talk about how b-hop, Mayweather and the likes "ruined" a fighter, could the same not be said about Lacy?
I don't think so necessarily, but it would go hand in hand with all the other dumb arguments that are being thrown around.

Fact of the matter is Cazlaghe beat a few decent fighters, he beat Kessler the clear #2 of the division and he beat B-hop while b-hop was still the kingpin at 175 and performing on a reasonable high level.
He remained undefeated.

He had a very good career and is a lock for the HOF.
He's the second greatest SMW of all time.

the fact that u're talking about taylor having an uninspired career after the loss to pavlik proves to me how little u actually know...taylor to date has been the only man to hurt and knock down froch and was winning on all scorecards with 11 seconds to spare in the 12th round...he also carried lacy whom he could've easily stopped had he followed through when he had him hurt in the 6th...u should watch those fights before u check their records

judah has accomplished more than most fighters, especially lacy, >2005...he beat matthysse who is highly respected and considered #2 at 140, in a close fight yes, but recent polls on this board have indicated most feel he deserved the nod...I feel that win more than warranted him being #1 contender...he also beat paris in an ibf eliminator...

back to calzaghe: u're saying he beat a few decent fights, right? imo that really doesn't make u a HOFer...in fact that makes u a fraud when u claim two lineal titles...he barely beat b-hop btw, many feel bhop won that fight. calzaghe was an underdog against lacy in the US...and lacy was being compared to mike tyson there as well which is utterly ridiculous as lacy has little head movement and is slow as ****...always has been. dawson, tarver, johnson and even woods were all ranked above jones when calzaghe fought him yet he went and fought him anyway

that to me tells me he calzaghe was clever in finding every loophole to maintain his undefeated record with the sheer exception of kessler who was a legit threat at the time

[Barry Halls]

the fact that u're talking about taylor having an uninspired career after the loss to pavlik proves to me how little u actually know...taylor to date has been the only man to hurt and knock down froch and was winning on all scorecards with 11 seconds to spare in the 12th round...he also carried lacy whom he could've easily stopped had he followed through when he had him hurt in the 6th...u should watch those fights before u check their records

And he was knocked out. Also against Abraham.

He has not beaten anyone of note since he lost to Pavlik.

judah has accomplished more than most fighters, especially lacy, >2005...he beat matthysse who is highly respected and considered #2 at 140, in a close fight yes, but recent polls on this board have indicated most feel he deserved the nod...I feel that win more than warranted him being #1 contender...he also beat paris in an ibf eliminator...

Judah has accomplished more than most fighters since 2005?

Since 2005 he's lost against ALL his top10 opponents, including Matthysse. The fact that you give him credit for it make me suggest you should actually watch some fights as you told me to do.

Vernon Paris? He's rubbish.
Since 2005 he's 7-6 with NO notable win. And no i'm not about to give him credit for the Matthysse fight.

Calzaghe certainly has had better careers than both JT and Zab.

back to calzaghe: u're saying he beat a few decent fights, right? imo that really doesn't make u a HOFer...in fact that makes u a fraud when u claim two lineal titles...he barely beat b-hop btw, many feel bhop won that fight. calzaghe was an underdog against lacy in the US...and lacy was being compared to mike tyson there as well which is utterly ridiculous as lacy has little head movement and is slow as ****...always has been. dawson, tarver, johnson and even woods were all ranked above jones when calzaghe fought him yet he went and fought him anyway

So you give Judah credit for "beating" Matthysse yet you balk at Calzaghe beating B-hop? Give me a break.

Compare Calzaghes resume to that of other fighters of his era that are going into the HOF. How about Hatton?

Yeah why didn't he fight Chad Dawson, a relative unknown, in his last fight instead of a moneyfight with Roy Jones jr? I can't imagine why!!

No one give him credit for the Roy fight just like no one give B-hop credit for his win over Roy. So why even argue over it?
If not for Roy, Calzaghe would have retired after the hopkins fight.

that to me tells me he calzaghe was clever in finding every loophole to maintain his undefeated record with the sheer exception of kessler who was a legit threat at the time

And obviously the lineal champ at 175, Bernard Hopkins. Those two wins are better than many fighters two best wins that are not ATG.

[Lead Cenobite]

Okay wait- are people saying that Jermain Taylor had a better career than Calzaghe?

No, just no. If he'd been able to replicate the Hopkins wins with any real success he'd be in the discussion but as it with who he faced and how it ended Joe clearly had a better career.

I think Joe is completely overrated but let's be honest and realistic.

And Zab judah? Really?

[Lead Cenobite]

To put the other wierd argument to rest on this thread: Yes Judah accomplisehd more than Lacey. Lacey never did anything.

But more than Calzaghe? no.

[-PANDA-]

Since 2005 he's lost against ALL his top10 opponents, including Matthysse. The fact that you give him credit for it make me suggest you should actually watch some fights as you told me to do.

u're a bit thick aren't u? I said u should put those fights into context...not check boxrec for who won...

Vernon Paris? He's rubbish.
Since 2005 he's 7-6 with NO notable win. And no i'm not about to give him credit for the Matthysse fight.

don't care who u give credit to...ur poor judgement in competitive fights is already evident

Calzaghe certainly has had better careers than both JT and Zab.

never even suggested JT and zab had better careers...highly incomparable...u brought those names up urself

So you give Judah credit for "beating" Matthysse yet you balk at Calzaghe beating B-hop? Give me a break.

not just me...the search function is ur friend

Compare Calzaghes resume to that of other fighters of his era that are going into the HOF. How about Hatton?

why should I? have I even suggested hatton belongs in the HOF?

Yeah why didn't he fight Chad Dawson, a relative unknown, in his last fight instead of a moneyfight with Roy Jones jr? I can't imagine why!!

relative unknown?

he was a two time champion and would've been a unified one had the wbc not stripped him

No one give him credit for the Roy fight just like no one give B-hop credit for his win over Roy. So why even argue over it?
If not for Roy, Calzaghe would have retired after the hopkins fight.

glad we agree on this one

And obviously the lineal champ at 175, Bernard Hopkins. Those two wins are better than many fighters two best wins that are not ATG.

don't care...we're not comparing him to other fighters "who are not ATG", we're comparing him to fighters who ARE...in that regard he falls short in about every feat u could possibly measure his career by

[Ve Ri Tas]

46-0...../thread

Yes I agree, I mean he fought the competition placed before him and he beat them all. Now granted not all of his wins were vs GRADE A comp, but he did come to fight every fight. One would assume that if Calzaghe had more power to go with his high work rate then he would have been a far more dangerous fighter. IMHO

[Barry Halls]

To put the other wierd argument to rest on this thread: Yes Judah accomplisehd more than Lacey. Lacey never did anything.

But more than Calzaghe? no.

that has never been the argument. please read the posts if you're going to contribute.

[Barry Halls]

u're a bit thick aren't u? I said u should put those fights into context...not check boxrec for who won...

No you actually said: "u should watch those fights before u check their records"

That means exactly that. That i should watch the fights before commenting.

Are you perhaps a bit thick?

don't care who u give credit to...ur poor judgement in competitive fights is already evident

Poor judgment as in being in the majority believing Calzaghe and Matthysse won?

never even suggested JT and zab had better careers...highly incomparable...u brought those names up urself

I never said such a thing. I said they both had uninspired careers after they were beat. The Calzaghe having better careers was a tidbit i threw out there, not as a rebuttal.

not just me...the search function is ur friend

Would this be the lone time someone on this board don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to boxing?

That you're not alone with this opinion does not make it relevant. If a majority felt the way you did you may have had an argument.

why should I? have I even suggested hatton belongs in the HOF?

Well, he's likely going into the HOF and is of this era. Whom other than he would you care to judge my claim that Calzaghe is HOF but not top100 ATG?

To evaluate Calzaghes career we need something to measure it against.

relative unknown?

Are you saying anyone but the hardcore fan knew who Dawson was in 2008 at the time Calzaghe had beaten Hopkins?

Was he remotely as big a name as Roy Jones jr?

No.

No one is giving him credit for the Roy fight. It was for money. An easy going away fight.
Roy was ranked 6th by ring ****zine, but no one cares about that.'

Let me take a guess? You think he should have come back from retirement to fight Froch too?

don't care...we're not comparing him to other fighters "who are not ATG", we're comparing him to fighters who ARE...in that regard he falls short in about every feat u could possibly measure his career by

Why? He's NOT an ATG? He's HOF. Big difference.

He's the second greatest SMW of all time.

[pturtle]

The man is one of the biggest frauds to ever lace them up.

I give him respect for fighting Lacy, and Kessler, those were the only 2 risky fights he took. Kessler is overrated and gave Joe a very tough fight, Lacy fight he looked great against, but Lacy was an unproven hype and thats a fact.

I give him Zero credit for the Hopkins and Jones fights.

I give him zero credit for the Hopkins fight because I think he took that fight thinking he could dominate after seeing how bad Hopkins looked against out of shape and smaller fighter in Winky Wright, I really believe thats what led to him moving up and fighting Hopkins.

The Jones fight he gets zero credit from everyone, his haters, fans, critics, writers, nobody gives him credit for that fight, while financially it made sense, I would not have mind him taking the fight if it wasn’t his last, he had a tone of other great fights that could of made him big money but he knew his resume was garbage and the only way he would be remembered was for that padded record.

As far as I’m concerned, he ducked, Pavlik, Hopkins rematch, Froch, and Dawson.

Most of the fighters at light heavy and super middle already blow his resume away and people sticking up for him are just promoting cherry picking, undefeated records are more important then being a warrior and fighting the best creating legendary great match ups