Wlad's "weak" chin

[Simurgh]

Steward said Wladimir is talented but Lewis is better because you have to give credit to the man who beat the better fighters. Lewis beat everyone in his era; something Wladimir cannot attest to.

No, again you are wrong. Manny said Lennox is GREATER not better... Very different thing. One can argue Joe Louis is greater than Lennox or Wlad, but is he better?

[damuttz112]

Magnassaki a man who has sparred with both guys said that Lewis beats Wlad for stylistic and temperament reasons. On the inside is where it would end for Wladimir with an uppercut. You are overrating Wladimir. And I like him as well lol.

[Simurgh]

Magnassaki a man who has sparred with both guys said that Lewis beats Wlad for stylistic and temperament reasons. On the inside is where it would end for Wladimir with an uppercut. You are overrating Wladimir. And I like him as well lol.

I can't really take Magnassaki opinion over Manny's =))

I don't even know who is the guy, lol (you can send me that quote on PP not here )

I don't think I overrate Wlad. I actually gave break down of Wlad vs Lennox match up (50:50 for me). Surely lennox would have an advantage on inside but man that is the hell of a job to do with bigger, much faster, better footwork and superior jab/punching power guy. Moreover as Wlad perfected it so well to stay outside if he wants to and Lennox's chin is not Vitali's chin. Well it may happen - we don't know I am just saying it's far from the obvious.

They are both equally great. They are bests of the bests!

[Jack Napier]

Wlad gets more flak for his KO losses than he should
his chin is weak, but he's gotten good enough to get past that
he just got tired against Purrity
Sanders was a journeyman, but a very deadly puncher if nothing else
he just got tired against Brewster
people just need shit to complain about regarding Wlad
the chin and the brother/brother rematches are easy targets

[yoz]

No, not at all. Manny said numerous times how he rate Lennox and Wlad. He even gave very detailed break down if they ever met. You want that one?

Your later remark doesn't really tells a lot. Of course on this forum most will choose Lennox over Wlad or for that sake most of american HW over wlad, but that's to be expected. If you go to German boxing site or Russian or easten europian forum the situation is all different. After all this is not talent show contents so bare voting doesn't tell a lot. Well it does actually - it says Lennox/american/british fans are much more numerous on this forum compared to Wlad's fans.

IMO Wlad will be in top5 after he retires. He is already in top10 easily. I have him same as Lennox at the moment. Will he go ever higher depends who he beat and if those fighters turn to be next HOF/ATG.

And again you are right - this forum shouldn't concern Lennox. I am just answering some other posts.

I just don't see how he can become a top 5 HW. It's almost impossible; unless some serious threats come through before he retires.

I'm not deliberately being prejudicial towards Wladimir (like some people on this forum), but it comes down to head-to-head and resume comparisons. Wlad has been incredibly unlucky. The HW division isn't as bad as people make out, but it's hardly stacked with talent, either. The fact he's shared the titles with his brother won't help his legacy, also. Similarly, the decision not to square-off with Vitali is detrimental (I fully respect their decision not to, BTW), but, ostensibly, it means they've double-teamed the division.

To clarify, i'm a Wladimir fan. I just thing we need to have some impartiality on this forum. Endless Vitali > Lennox, Lennox > Wladimir threads don't help.

[Simurgh]

I just don't see how he can become a top 5 HW. It's almost impossible; unless some serious threats come through before he retires.

I'm not deliberately being prejudicial towards Wladimir (like some people on this forum), but it comes down to head-to-head and resume comparisons. Wlad has been incredibly unlucky. The HW division isn't as bad as people make out, but it's hardly stacked with talent, either. The fact he's shared the titles with his brother won't help his legacy, also. Similarly, the decision not to square-off with Vitali is detrimental (I fully respect their decision not to, BTW), but, ostensibly, it means they've double-teamed the division.

To clarify, i'm a Wladimir fan. I just thing we need to have some impartiality on this forum. Endless Vitali > Lennox, Lennox > Wladimir threads don't help.

Well I can agree he didn't have many great opportunities to prove himself, but I also think that in 60+ he prove himself enough. He faced every possible type of opponent - from fast footed guys, southpaws, huge giants, big punchers, brawlers... He dominated them all. Something which is very rare.

If you want to use more numerical approach, Wlad looks even more impressive.

Actually sometimes I think wlad is the victim of his own dominance. He makes it looks too easy. In 60+ (250+ rounds) you can count on hands number of rounds he lost.

I can well make a case for him being top5 right now - but that's for other thread.

If somebody from the past watched Haye-Chisorra he would say it's the fight between two great ATGs...

I often watch old HW championship fights (ATG fighters) and I have an impression people are very subjective about those fighters. Objectively they are not that impressive - I don't take anything from them, they are great! And moreover most of them are barely cruiseweight by today's standards.

And I totally agree with you. Countless comparisons of Lennox, Vitali, Wlad don't lead anywhere but trolling and gifs...

[damuttz112]

I often watch old HW championship fights (ATG fighters) and I have an impression people are very subjective about those fighters. Objectively they are not that impressive - I don't take anything from them, they are great! And moreover most of them are barely cruiseweight by today's standards.

What is your top 10 Heavyweight ATG List?

[Simurgh]

What is your top 10 Heavyweight ATG List?

there are more than one way to rank the fighter (resume-wise, H2H wise and so on...)
I use to shuffle fighters from time to time...

But if I need to do it right now it would go something like :

1. Muhamad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Wladimar Klitschko
5. Joe Louis
6. Mike Tyson
7. Riddick Bowe
8. Larry Holmes
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Jack Dempsey
12. Vitali
13. Liston

This is taking into account resume and H2H ranking. I would probably favor both Lennox and Wladimir H2H against Foreman. H2H vitali would be higher. Very prime Tyson H2H might even be closest to prime Ali. Marciano obviously would be much lower H2H... and so on... I shuffle this list... Sometimes I put Wlad above Lennox (but more or less I have them equal). Sometimes I put Tyson lower as he screwed it up later in his career.

Only thing that is constant is my GOAT and that's Ali

[DreamFighter]

This is exactly what I beg you not to do.

It stands against everything Emanuel Steward was standing for. He is known as the guy who use to give the credit to opposite fighter over his fighter. Wasn't he the one who openly said Lennox was better than McCall when he was McCall trainer - even before the fight.

trainers say it before the fight to throw an opponent off guard. This is common knowledge.

And why go into details? Why he didn't just say Wlad is more talented, but he listed all the things he saw Wlad does better. Why jeopardize his global boxing image with that?

'Why not' just as easily.

And selling out Wlad at that stage? I mean come on... Wlad sold out full 50-60k stadiums 7 times in row )

the same Wlad world champ who struggles to get an HBO contract. yep, he dont need help selling himself.

And you are wrong, I didn't want to quote this as I really really don't want to turn this to Lennox vs Wlad....

TKO less than 6, now you mention it. There now you dont need to again.

[Simurgh]

trainers say it before the fight to throw an opponent off guard. This is common knowledge.

'Why not' just as easily.

the same Wlad world champ who struggles to get an HBO contract. yep, he dont need help selling himself.


TKO less than 6, now you mention it. There now you dont need to again.

No, it's not. It's you opinion. I see it as wrong.
What the hell TKO6 has with Wladimir, lol