How man of you think that Pac and Marquez

[Frank Ducketts]

Yes, medically, i've never seen indications of PED use in Manny.

Not to say anything is impossible .... Because anyone can cheat and get away with it.

But, when they cheat, your going to see some type of evidence in body composition.

I've never noticed that in Manny at any point, and i've been watching Manny since the Barrera in 2003. So, i've been following him during the time you "suspect" he would have been using something PED related.

Its not like Manny was a crappy fighter who was really bad and went from loosing fights to winning them... Manny has always been a great fighter, its not like he "all the sudden got good". Manny has been fighting same style and beating guys forever.

His body didn't just swell up with enhancement overnight like JMM, while also lowering bodyfat percentages, because building musclemass and lowering bodyfat don't mix. You get one or the other, NOT both - which JMM did acheive for the Pacquiao fights, 3 and 4.

Marquez was never a crappy fighter either. No crappy fighter can use PEDS and become a good fighter. Pac looked huge when rose from lw to ww to face Dlh.

[TheBoxingBanger]

@Birkonian

Manny Pacquiao and his team are definately dirty, little, crooked drug cheats. There is no question in my mind that Pacquiao would not have been able to achieve what he has if he wasn't on PED's. He was always a talented fighter, don't get me wrong, he has always had some talent. However, you only have to look at the fights with Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto to realize this guy was juicing. Just doesn't make sense how quickly he moved up the weights, looking totally ripped and being more powerful than he'd ever been.

A fighter can't be at 130 lb, labouring to points wins against the likes of a faded Marco Antonio Barrera, and getting a total gift against Juan Manuel Marquez, then less than 18 months later, he's up at the 147 lb weight limit, beating on guys who probably weigh 168+ lb on fight night, looking like an absolute monster. Just doesn't add up. I never started out as a hater, and I don't truly class myself as a hater. I am just a truth seeker, and I can't sit here and look at all the evidence presented, and then ignore the clear signs that Pacquiao is a juicer.

Pacquiao was a quality, little fighter right up to his second fight with Marquez in 2008. Up to that point his accomplishments are more believable. Even though, now, considering the extent of this fraud, you can never tell what is legit and what is a cheat. The biggest achievements in his 'possibly clean at the time' career, were his shock taxing of Barrera's ass back in 2003 (I had the second fight a draw, personally), the way in which he avenged a loss against a fading Erik Morales, and having two close, competitive fights with Marquez (which he lost both of).

His accomplishments up to that point were good, he was a three time, three weight world champion, and nobody would have questioned the taint of his legacy any more than the next guy. From that point on the drug cheating began, and all credibility was lost.

Marquez on the other hand is not a drug cheat. The Pacquiao fans are just so in denial that it's easier to throw weightless accusations, laughable considering that it is infact their guy who is the juicehead, rather than face up to the fact that, regardless how much PED's Pacquiao was on, Marquez was always his daddy.

They could live with robbery decisions, in which they just told themselves repeatedly that Pacquiao was the rightful winner, over and over until they actually believed it. It is impossible to do the same with an emphatic knockout loss which leaves your guy laying face down with a mouthful of canvas. The only option left for them is to cry foul, that their superhero is still truly the rightful winner, that the only way he was defeated was by some evil outside powers.

It cracks me up, the level of the delusion.

I really am glad i've been blessd and afforded a top-notch education.

In your first paragraph you reference how Manny came up through the weights quick and being ripped.

Open your eyes and use google. Look at his weighin pictures from the Barrera fight in 2003, THAT was Manny SHREDDED and CUT.

Fast forward til now, and Manny still looks in incredible shape, but he had to give up cuts and being shredded in order to pack on muscle and size. He still looks in shape, but not as cut.

With Marquez on the other hand, there's just too much to list, i'm not going to go over it again. Click my name and search the threads.

Marquez is juiced.

... I forgot to ask, are you mexican by chance??

[elgranluchadore]

there's no proof they cheated and that should be enough.
if they were american everyone would be defending them, just look at lance armstrong

[Frank Ducketts]

I really am glad i've been blessd and afforded a top-notch education.

In your first paragraph you reference how Manny came up through the weights quick and being ripped.

Open your eyes and use google. Look at his weighin pictures from the Barrera fight in 2003, THAT was Manny SHREDDED and CUT.

Fast forward til now, and Manny still looks in incredible shape, but he had to give up cuts and being shredded in order to pack on muscle and size. He still looks in shape, but not as cut.

With Marquez on the other hand, there's just too much to list, i'm not going to go over it again. Click my name and search the threads.

Marquez is juiced.

... I forgot to ask, are you mexican by chance??

Floyd Mayweather isn' cut as he used to be either. Peep him from 2003 till today, lmao! Peep Pac when he fought Diaz at lw and then Dlh at ww. All I'm saying is that why did so many people suspect Pac of PED use. Why is all I'm asking.

[DeadLikeMe]

I'm pretty sure boxing banger is an algorithm, no sane human would actually believe the things he says.

[TheBoxingBanger]

@Frank

Marquez was never a crappy fighter either. No crappy fighter can use PEDS and become a good fighter. Pac looked huge when rose from lw to ww to face Dlh.

Manny did look nice and stocky along side DLH.

But, lets be fair and honest here ... Oscar had NO business being at 147lbs.

So one could reasonably have a proper explanation for that circumstance.

Oscar at that point was shot to shit, and didn't even belong in the ring at 154 ... let alone 147.

Personally, I thought Oscar was done when he lost to Felix Sturm .... yes I know he technically has the 'W' ... but he lost.

Next fight, Bernard put the last nail in that coffin.

Oscar never should have fought again after that Sturm fight.

Anyways ... Marquez blew up in a year.

Manny never blew up in weight in a year, while also shredding his body at the same time like Marquez did.

And FYI crappy fighters can most definately use PEDs and transform into a great fighters. I've seen it happen. A couple times actually.

... It goes like this, the crappy fighter uses PEDs to get enhanced, then starts to win ... because of the PED enhancements & his winning streak, his confidence builds and he hooks up with other more experienced fighters and learns new things .... eventually the fighter might want compete in an event that is being tested for. He'll have to get clean, but he has learned so much from these other fighters and now has confidence to go on and win WHILE CLEAN.

It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

[Birkonian]

Juan Manuel Marquez career sequence
9 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
1 fight at Super Featherweight (130lb)
8 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
1 fight at Lightweight (135lb)
10 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
1 fight at Super Featherweight (130lb)
12 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
1 fight at Lightweight (135lb)
7 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
3 fights at Super Featherweight (130lb)
2 fights at Lightweight (135lb)
1 fight at Welterweight (147lb)
2 fights at Lightweight (135lb)
1 fight at Light Welterweight (140lb)
1 fight at Catchweight (144lb)
1 fight at Light Welterweight (140lb)
1 fight at Welterweight (147lb)

So:

He started at Featherweight (126lb)
Had a combined 46 fights at Featherweight (126lb)
Had a combined 5 fights at Super Featherweight (130lb)
Had a combined 6 fights at Lightweight (135lb)
Had a combined 2 fights at Light Welterweight (140lb)
Had a combined 1 fight at Catchweight (144lb)
Had a combined 2 fights at Welterweight (147lb)

In his career he has moved up a total of 21lb/1st 7lb.

This has been a slow, steady rise through the weights, nothing suspicious, considering he was fighting as high as 135lb/9st 9lb in only his 19th pro fight.

[TheBoxingBanger]

@dead

I'm pretty sure boxing banger is an algorithm, no sane human would actually believe the things he says.

YOUR BACK, nice hearing from ya again.

Algorithm's are usually mathematical calculations for specific procedures??

Did you perhaps mean an acronym by chance?

[DeadLikeMe]

YOUR BACK, nice hearing from ya again.

Algorithm's are usually mathematical calculations for specific procedures??

Did you perhaps mean an acronym by chance?

what is this...i dont even

the only acronym that comes to mind when i see your name is YDKSAB

[happyman]

If you ask me neither have signs of obvious PED use, and in my mind they are innocent until proven guilty. But on the other hand I wouldn't doubt someone that said they feel suspicious of everyone in boxing, especially considering the recent string of recent cheats that have been caught.