NYTimes openly suspicious of PED use by JMM

[GrandpaBernard]

This is the type of stuff that makes me even happier that Juan knocked manny the f out. The nerve to accuse a manny rival of being on some ****. I suppose this is the perk manny has from being the media's b1tch

[I Love Jesus!]

He never did any weight training so he should improve a lot but it is suspicious that he never knocked him down in 36 rounds then all the sudden comes out and smashes him in 3 and puts him out for good in 6

[Glamour Puss]

This is just low level sensationalism to excite the plebs and sell copy of an irrelevant newspaper.

Damaging a good fight is their attempt to stay relevant and gin up controversy where there is none. JMM has always been in good shape. He's been at the 140+ for 3 years now and is settling into the weight. I know exercise and diet seems like rocket science to some people but you'd be surprised what a little determination and discipline can accomplish.

It was a great fight, JMM caught him with a one inch punch he didn't see and that was it. JMM's ko % is equal to Pac's. Both guys got power.

No conspiracy.

[CubanGuyNYC]

I think a lot of people have short memories.

After losing a close fight to Pac in 2008, Marquez moved up to 135 himself and brutally KO'd Joel Casamayor (who had never been KO'd before, even by big punches at that weight), then he brutally KO'd Juan Diaz (who had never been KO'd before, after fighting big punchers at that weight), and also KO'd the tough as nails Michael Katsidis.

Marquez has always had good power, he just started sitting down on his punches a little more as he moved up in weight and started producing some massive knockouts...

I'm not saying that Marquez (or Pac or Floyd or anyone else) is clean, but saying that because he looks bigger and punches harder he must be on PEDs is a bit misleading in and of itself.

I thought the extra muscle mass actually hampered him and that he looked slower as a result, but his skills and timing are still great and he used that to his advantage to sit down on his punches and land two of the hardest shots he's ever thrown.

I'll focus on the Casamayor fight, since it's the one I'm most familiar with. Joel was already past it at age 37, when he fought Marquez. Juan Manuel dropped him twice, late in the eleventh round of a tough fight. Casamayor caught many punches before he hit the canvass the second time and the ref stopped the fight. He was never close to being unconscious.

Contrast that scenario with a 33 year-old future ATG who gets KTFO cold in the sixth round by a single punch. This by a man who has never even put Pacquiao on his seat in three prior meetings. We agree that Marquez has always been a hard puncher, and we also agree that his new-and-improved physique doesn't necessarily scream foul play, but his latest performance at age 39 is a little too spectacular to go unquestioned.

[Zano-24]

no it was'nt ..manny had his feet planted ..it did'nt buckle his legs ..it dropped him like he got hit with a baseball bat...ive seen marquez hit pac with cleaner shot than that and it did'nt do much..

Off balance and moving backwards like I said... So stop with your crying. Manny got KO'D from a perfect shot. Hands were down, head was moving forward and Marquez threw a tight strong right hand that Manny never seen. THAT is why he got KO'D. Manny's issue has always been that he would always be off balance when attacking and right after hes attacking and backing away. Marquez took advantage of this twice in this fight and both resulted in a KD and a KO.

The KD was more so of Manny being off balance and getting his legs buckled causing him to fall down, though the shot did hurt him. You can see that right when Marquez threw that right hand that dropped Manny, Manny is looking at Marquez's left hand and he raises his right guard and drops his left guard leaving his face wide open. The KO was due to a lot of thing that Manny did wrong and that Marquez did right as I mention.

[Hougigo]

The real reason why Pac was able to hurt bigger guys the way he did was because he hit them with punches they couldn't see. His speed and the angles of the punches he threw enabled him to do that. That was the kind of punch Marquez caught Pac with. Pac jumped right into it. Marquez didn't even have his right arm fully extended when he landed that punch. Pac caught it full force on the chin. I don't care how good your chin is you get caught with something like that and you're going down.

IMO, it was because of his accumulation of punches and the speed he delivered them. You saw the fights, he'd be firing off combos and backing them up. He threw more than 700 punches a fight and that builds up on you...
The only one hit KO he had when he was moving up was against Hatton... almost everything else was accumulation.

[CubanGuyNYC]

i agree with everything they've said. they've got a right to be suspicious. they're not making accusations.

he's 39 years old. he's never looked like this.

his s and c coach is one of the world's experts on using steroids and avoiding detection.


if you're a journalist and you aren't suspicious you just might be on the take.

Back in 2009, the baseball player Raul Ibañez was on a home run tear right up to the middle of the season. Ibañez became the target of serious scrutiny by the sportswriters. Rightfully so. Raul was 37 and, despite getting injured and missing many games, still managed to finish the season with a higher home run total than he had ever achieved in his whole career. Of course, baseball had come under the microscope by then, so a guy like Ibañez would naturally take some heat. The Marquez "shot heard round-the-world" might just end up being the moment that brings boxing under the same microscope.

[mikeyh1015]

Mayweather is still afraid of Pac.
Pac got Bested by a better Marquez.
Pac might not be same ever.

the story goes on....

[superchamp]

I'll focus on the Casamayor fight, since it's the one I'm most familiar with. Joel was already past it at age 37, when he fought Marquez. Juan Manuel dropped him twice, late in the eleventh round of a tough fight. Casamayor caught many punches before he hit the canvass the second time and the ref stopped the fight. He was never close to being unconscious.

Contrast that scenario with a 33 year-old future ATG who gets KTFO cold in the sixth round by a single punch. This by a man who has never even put Pacquiao on his seat in three prior meetings. We agree that Marquez has always been a hard puncher, and we also agree that his new-and-improved physique doesn't necessarily scream foul play, but his latest performance at age 39 is a little too spectacular to go unquestioned.

I never said it was prime Casamayor, but Casamayor was the ring and lineal lightweight champion when Marquez moved up and KO'd him. (Pacquiao chose to fight David Diaz instead of Casamayor).

Casamayor had also fought 36 hard rounds with Diego Corrales, 12 with Jose Luis Castillo and had one punch KO'd an undefeated Katsidis only a few months earlier.

The shot that took out Pacquiao was about as hard and perfect a counter shot as he could throw. Pacquiao didn't see it at all and he lunged into it. That shot would have KO'd almost anybody.

Martinez one-punched Paul Williams, who had always shown a tremendous chin, with a shot just like that.

[CubanGuyNYC]

I never said it was prime Casamayor, but Casamayor was the ring and lineal lightweight champion when Marquez moved up and KO'd him. (Pacquiao chose to fight David Diaz instead of Casamayor).

Casamayor had also fought 36 hard rounds with Diego Corrales, 12 with Jose Luis Castillo and had one punch KO'd an undefeated Katsidis only a few months earlier.

I never implied you did. I merely pointed out all the factors. A past it Casa, who got KOed late in a fight where he took a lot of shots before finally hitting the canvass, contrasted against a relatively fresh, young, future ATG who got sparked by one punch.

The shot that took out Pacquiao was about as hard and perfect a counter shot as he could throw. Pacquiao didn't see it at all and he lunged into it. That shot would have KO'd almost anybody.

Martinez one-punched Paul Williams, who had always shown a tremendous chin, with a shot just like that.

This is the best thing anyone can say about the legitimacy of the KO. The shot was pretty darn perfect. But in 42 previous rounds Marquez never landed anything approaching that shot? Perhaps not, but I'm pretty sure he landed some good ones without even putting Manny on his ass. Then he knocked Pacquiao down for the first time with a not-so-perfect punch.