How high do you rank Miguel Cotto?

[GUEVARA]

Earned a draw by losing 10 rounds clearly?

Thats a myth right there.

The fight was clearly competitive and closer than the scorecards.

[Light_Speed]

The word "CHAMP" get's thrown a lot here, I feel it should only be used for lineal champions. You can refer to Cotto as a competitive titleholder in 3 divisions, but not a champion in three. If we only had one belt, like back in the day, then Cotto would be considered for what he is, a decent fighter who became a top 10 contender in the three divisions where he campaigned. The idea that Cotto is "3 division champ" sounds as though he dominated three divisions, which is not the case. Title belts don't mean much these days, but people seem to forget that for some reason.

I know you didn't post that with Austin Trout holding the "regular" WBA title in your avatar. Irony doesn't even begin to cover it.

Yes it's easier to become champion these days because of all the titles but still, how many guys have become titlists in 3 divisions? It's still a great accomplishment.

I looked at your sig and realized why you don't consider gatekeeper cotto a gatekeeper,..... you just compared Marquez who went up 2 weight classes to best an ATG at almost 40. To Cotto who just got beat up by Austin fucking Trout

Cotto decisively lost to Pacquiao, Margarito, Mayweather, Trout and had close fights who people think he lost against Clottey and Mosley. His best win is who? a one legged Foreman? how many lineal titles has he won? any career defining moments? No? sorry you can't beat Zab Judah and Bailey and consider yourself elite.

A gatekeeper is a past prime fighter who is used as a stepping stone because he isn't elite. Which is exactly what Cotto was used as. You even thinking Cotto and Marquez are in the same stratosphere is a joke.

Cotto is not on Marquez's level of greatness but Marquez himself is overrated as hell. Lost to Norwood, lost to John, barely got by post-prime Barrera, was shut out by Floyd. Take Pacquiao out of the picture and Marquez's career is not so great anymore.

[LeG00N]

Lost to Norwood

Close fight, where Marquez didn't get credit for dropping Norwood. A lot of people felt Marquez won.

but already you established that you're going to give the other guy the decision because it benefits and proves your point.

lost to John

This one wasn't that close, John got a hometown decision and the 2 points they deducted Marquez finalized the robbery

barely got by post-prime Barrera

it was pretty decisive... Barrera is a HOF and even at the time they fought he was a champion and Marquez was older. But again i'm not surprised because from the very start your post was to discredit Marquez.

was shut out by Floyd

wow really? LoL

That sounds pretty bad specially if someone just looks it up on boxrec with out any circumstances or anything surrounding the fight.
Lets just take out the fact that Marquez was in his late 30's going up 2 weight classes against a fighter that didn't even make weight, happens to be an ATG and got titles at Junior Middleweight. None of that is relevant at all.

this just told me how much of a joke your post is.

Take Pacquiao out of the picture and Marquez's career is not so great anymore.

Yea lets take Marquez's 3 biggest fights out of his career. Where he's fighting an ATG in 3 different weight classes LoL

he isn't that great except where

- He's beaten 10 previous or current world champions
- Oldest Lineal Lightweight Champion in the history of boxing
- 4 division champion (not counting the 5th robbery)
- +8 World titles
- P4P fighter for how many years 7?

that's all aside from Pacquiao, yea he's not great at all.

if he would've gotten the questionable decisions he'd be a
5 division champion, with 3 Lineal Champion ships, and around 15 world titles
he gets no credit for that though....as he shouldn't because it's not official and different people feel different ways.

[thuggery]

[Light_Speed]

Close fight, where Marquez didn't get credit for dropping Norwood. A lot of people felt Marquez won.

Yes and we are talking about the legendary Freddie Norwood.

This one wasn't that close, John got a hometown decision and the 2 points they deducted Marquez finalized the robbery

JMM admitted it was a close fight. The pt deductions were BS but with them, you can't argue with a draw or a John victory.

it was pretty decisive... Barrera is a HOF and even at the time they fought he was a champion and Marquez was older. But again i'm not surprised because from the very start your post was to discredit Marquez.

It was a close fight and a lot of people think Barrera won, and it was a post-prime Barrera who managed to drop JMM. Being past your prime has little to do with age, only an ignorant boxing fan would bring up age.

wow really? LoL

That sounds pretty bad specially if someone just looks it up on boxrec with out any circumstances or anything surrounding the fight.
Lets just take out the fact that Marquez was in his late 30's going up 2 weight classes against a fighter that didn't even make weight, happens to be an ATG and got titles at Junior Middleweight. None of that is relevant at all.

this just told me how much of a joke your post is.

Floyd was 2lbs bigger than him at the weigh-in, big whoop. Still doesn't explain JMM losing every freaking round. Floyd made him look like an amateur, and he didn't even impose his size, he simply outboxed the guy and won every minute of every round, easy work. That kind of loss does affect your credibility as an ATG.

Yea lets take Marquez's 3 biggest fights out of his career. Where he's fighting an ATG in 3 different weight classes LoL

he isn't that great except where

- He's beaten 10 previous or current world champions
- Oldest Lineal Lightweight Champion in the history of boxing
- 4 division champion (not counting the 5th robbery)
- +8 World titles
- P4P fighter for how many years 7?

that's all aside from Pacquiao, yea he's not great at all.

if he would've gotten the questionable decisions he'd be a
5 division champion, with 3 Lineal Champion ships, and around 15 world titles
he gets no credit for that though....as he shouldn't because it's not official and different people feel different ways.

But the fact that his career would suffer so much from taking one fighter out of the equation, it says something.

His lightweight reign wasn't that great. He beat Casamayor who was past his best and was a joke of a lineal champ after his gift against Santa Cruz. He beat Diaz who had already been exposed by Campbell who was the #1 at the time. Then he fought Katsidis who was far from an elite fighter, and got dropped again.

His JWW "title" is a joke of epic proportion.

[Mr. Philadel]

[RockyB]

yeah but Cotto lost that one.


You know, he was a decent B+ level fighter

The word "warrior" gets thrown around too much, "warriors" don't take knees, quit, and run away like he has done many times.

He was B+, he beat the guys he was supposed to beat and lost to the ones he was supposed to lose to, his resume is good but not great and he was a bully type fighter who was great when things were going his way but not so good under pressure.

I'm a big Cotto fan, his fights are ALWAYS exciting (except the Trout fight IMO), but I have to agree with all of this. He has a tendency to fold under pressure and start running..

[bojangles1987]

At his best, Miguel Cotto was a very good fighter. He was never elite though, and far too many people considered him to be so. I think he's been consistently overrated in my time on this site, as much as any other fighter in the same time period.

[Walt Liquor]

Cotto's atg (in today's era if that makes any sense)on his willingness to tackle tough challenges. I like him more than almost every other fighter alive for that and have the utmost respect for him as a fighter.

People keep up with this "fell short vs the elite" bullshi t. Well, guess what, manny would only catchweight him and floyd wouldnt come anywhere near him until he went through hell and back a few times in the ring.

So *** off with holding that against him.

[Brother Jay]

Clottey was stripped just before fighting Cotto, he was an uncrowned champ so I still consider it an unification.

Cotto had an excellent career, not an all time great but a true elite fighter who was one of the best of his generation.

I kind of disagree.

Clottey wasn't a champion. He was a titlist as the belt he beat Judah for was a vacant title. It was a good effort, but we have to be honest: Cotto beat Jennings for a vacant belt, and then fought Clottey who had just competed for a vacant belt.

Now I know that sometimes vacant title matches happen, but Top Rank fighters have a habit of establishing themselves with those kinds of matches. Truth.

Clottey was never really World Class material. He had the goods IMO but not the heart or mental fortitude to be a real champion.

Cotto fought most everybody but he lost nearly every time he hit the big stage until he became a jrMW. It was at jrMW that Cotto stepped it up, avenged a loss and earned the #1 spot in a division.

No question as to whether he's a warrior though. Not many people can say that they stood toe to toe with Mosley and got a win.