It is INTELLECTUALLY & ANALYTICALLY DISHONEST to rank fighters with NO FIGHT FOOTAGE

[crold1]

Did you watch that video of Greb sparring ROFLMAO, you think he could compete with current fighters? He would get wrecked dude cmon

That's not remotely legitimate sparring footage. Not at all. Read back a little. Go watch some Mickey walker footage or some Gene Tunney or any of the other many notable fighters Greb beat at some point that there is fight film on.

Greb was a bad dude.

[kendom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHnidDtgFaw

still not buying it.

Wasn't it explained to you in the other thread that because cameras were filmed at a different frame rate, fighters used to exaggerate their movements rolled for training footage? do you think Greb actually punched like this in fights?

[kendom]

Scrap 40 years old, the man Greb was sparring, Philiadelphia Jack'O brien died in 1942 at the age of 64, that footage was taken somewhere around late 20's early 30's so he must have been nearing 50 or have probably been slightly older. The man that Greb was sparring in that footage died over a dozen years later from old age, and this is the same footage people love to espouse to somehow discredit Greb

[croz]

Show me 120 hours of it.

Ha! You're hanging onto that? You do ****ing know slavery is still alive and well today don't you? In some countries it never really ended. You made a horrible analogy, why don't you just accept it and move on?

[JDezi4]

Wasn't the p4p ranking system based off of "who would win if they were the same size"

[crold1]

Boxing is the only sport where people think not only athetic ability but technique didnt improve. All of this nonsense calling fighters "old school" anyone who uses a shoulder roll when really it is just a style of defense and is used all over the place even by morales. Lets pick all of todays best strategic fighters and call them old school even though it doesnt really make any sense because we have a convoluted idea of what fighters actually fought like 60 years ago.

These guys above would get sparked out by todays B level fighters and its the truth. Look how fast and quickly MMA style evolved in like 15 years and people think boxers were strategically better 70 to 100 years ago.

I watched this fight again a while back; actually a good scrap. It's also not properly contextualized by what you're saying. This isn't both guys in their absolute prime. Both were getting near the end of long tenures.

For a better idea of what a prime Canzo looked like, check out his stuff with Kid Chocolate:



Even adjusting for things like frame rate (obviously faster than normal here), you can see evidence of perfectly so-called 'modern' technique. Chocolate was as slick a boxer as ever lived in any time. Great footwork, good speed etc. Canzoneri's ability to time counters evident.

We live in a time where guys like Carl Froch and Vic Darchinyan can put together HOF-ish sort of resumes and these guys would be "B." C'mon man.

And of course they were old school. Don't take my word for it. I've had the blessing of getting to ask people like Bernard Hopkins about who they watch and why and listen to the sheer admiration for, say, Ezzard Charles that's still out there.

[croz]

I watched this fight again a while back; actually a good scrap. It's also not properly contextualized by what you're saying. This isn't both guys in their absolute prime. Both were getting near the end of long tenures.

For a better idea of what a prime Canzo looked like, check out his stuff with Kid Chocolate:



Even adjusting for things like frame rate (obviously faster than normal here), you can see evidence of perfectly so-called 'modern' technique. Chocolate was as slick a boxer as ever lived in any time. Great footwork, good speed etc. Canzoneri's ability to time counters evident.

We live in a time where guys like Carl Froch and Vic Darchinyan can put together HOF-ish sort of resumes and these guys would be "B." C'mon man.

And of course they were old school. Don't take my word for it. I've had the blessing of getting to ask people like Bernard Hopkins about who they watch and why and listen to the sheer admiration for, say, Ezzard Charles that's still out there.

But B-hop explicitly said in an interview with Atlas that he doesn't train as an "old school" fighter. Atlas tried to pressure Hopkins in admitting he had learned old school techniques. Hopkins was having none of it.

A lot of these guys who use the term old school are pretty dillusional. It's funny the amount of times I hear someone like Merchant say modern boxers don't have head movement, or modern boxers don't use the jab right as the boxer on screen does both of these things. Things like that are taught in any boxing school from day 1. They also use the term "throw back fight" during heated brawls as if those things don't happen often today. They happen plenty, and I'm pretty sick of hearing that term thrown in during every exciting fight. Boxing is full of morons who harp on about the old days of boxing even when the actions going on right in front of them.

[crold1]

But B-hop explicitly said in an interview with Atlas that he doesn't train as an "old school" fighter. Atlas tried to pressure Hopkins in admitting he had learned old school techniques. Hopkins was having none of it.

A lot of these guys who use the term old school are pretty dillusional. It's funny the amount of times I hear someone like Merchant say modern boxers don't have head movement, or modern boxers don't use the jab right as the boxer on screen does both of these things. Things like that are taught in any boxing school from day 1. They also use the term "throw back fight" during heated brawls as if those things don't happen often today. They happen plenty, and I'm pretty sick of hearing that term thrown in during every exciting fight. Boxing is full of morons who harp on about the old days of boxing even when the actions going on right in front of them.

And other times he calls himself a modern-day throwback: http://******.craveonline.com/blog/1...-dying-breedq-

Hopkins says what he wants when he wants.

I can concur with that. Boxing old timers certainly have a way with hyperbole. The idea that the elite fighters of today couldn't hang with the elite fighters of yesterday is typically. If the only standard is "x couldn't beat Robinson or Pep" sure. I'll buy it.

But I'd watch McLarnin-Pac or a Featherweight Morales vs. Baby Arizmendi, break out the popcorn, and expect a great fight either way.

[BKM-]

If you really wanted to make a point about this you should have gone a bit further back in time(no footage of himself OR opponents, limited legit eye witness accounts, most newspaper clippings etc.) because there's too much info on Greb, there's even footage of some of the fighters he beat.

[bojangles1987]

Yup. The new breed of athletes started in the late 80s to 90s. Anything before that cannot be compared to new athletes. Major advances in science, nutrition, training, etc.

Can you imagine Rocky Marciano or Joe Louis fighting Lennox Lewis? what a joke that would be. KO 1

Joe Louis could absolutely knock Lennox Lewis out. His ability, skill, and punching power would translate to any era.