ESPN moves Manny Pacquiao to number 4 on the P4P list!!

[Pretty Boy Greg]

Please... drained Cotto, pathetic. Then you're all over the place regarding the timeline, Clottey was legit top 5 welter at the time, Peterson and Matthysse not even top 10 at LWW at the time. Even now, Khan or Maidana, you'd give Pac 0 credit. Alexander exposed twice in a row, Berto's best win tight vs Collazo, became an answer to a trivia question:

Who's the one contender level guy Ortiz beat in 5 tries?

You might as well blamed Pac for taking on Clottey, Marg, 145 Cotto instead of Zaveck, Aydin, Senchenko. And 147lb Micheal Jennings.

those guys i said are available now instead of another jmm fight... there were more legit opponents at the time when he fought clottey, mosley and margacheato

[J-Smooth]

those guys i said are available now instead of another jmm fight... there were more legit opponents at the time when he fought clottey, mosley and margacheato

how was clottey a bad fight? dude was a welterweight tank who was coming off a arguable win against cotto

[HeroBando]

I say JMM beats a 145 cotto. Anyhow styles do make fights, and I had Pac losing not getting schooled. I wasn't alone. The fact of the matter is it's been done four times... who cares? Even boxing and sport websites are like...again? The ONLY reason he's fighting JMM is because he's the only fight outside cotto or mayweather to make him money... there's a reason he wanted cotto first... Don't try to make it seem like Pac is doing this for the fans he's not.

I never said he's doing it for the fans. No doubt the ppv numbers count, so you see someone cares. Like twice as many people as for the likes of Alexander or Maidana or whoever. He also probably feels he's got something to prove.

But how can you pretend it's not a high risk fight for him? Yes styles make fights, but Bradley has well proven himself the head of the 140 class, and gave Pac way less trouble than JMM 1, 2, or 3. And now we're supposed to get excited for Peterson or Maidana or Khan or Alexander, the also rans at 140.

[Grimgash]

HeroBando laying down the facts for these Floyd fans who don't know much outside of Floyd.

Hardly. Also you've posted nothing relevant to the topic or boxing yet, apparently your knowledge of boxing is limited. He makes valid points in a discussion while you're doing what exactly?

[Grimgash]

I never said he's doing it for the fans. No doubt the ppv numbers count, so you see someone cares. Like twice as many people as for the likes of Alexander or Maidana or whoever. He also probably feels he's got something to prove.

But how can you pretend it's not a high risk fight for him? Yes styles make fights, but Bradley has well proven himself the head of the 140 class, and gave Pac way less trouble than JMM 1, 2, or 3. And now we're supposed to get excited for Peterson or Maidana or Khan or Alexander, the also rans at 140.

Your whole second argument implodes on itself to be honest though. You said styles make fights yet bradley beats those guys so pac shouldn't fight them? That goes back to my saying of Floyd-JMM. Look my issue is it's been done before I wasn't saying he isn't calling himself, I'm just saying he's doing it purely for money. There are other interesting fights out there that CAN be made, see pac against some new competition that isn't old or way past it. There's no way you can say he has no options there are plenty to be honest. This goes back to topic on hand though, people drop pac because of his opponent selection / rehashing and questionable CWs, while looking poorly recently.

He should have fought maidana to be honest, and gain some credibility back with an exciting win. Pac-JMM will do nothing for his credibility unless he KO's JMM and dominates him. That's the argument I'm making when it comes down to why he's ranked under #2 p4p in a lot of recent lists. It's all opinion but recently everyones opinion was so high, don't think these are the only people who's opinion has changed. Regardless if you or I agree with it, it's a trend that isn't going to stop unless Pac can show us he's what he was a while back, not what he is now.

[Pacquiao'd]

pactrolls are on suicide watch

[shade darkar]

well its only an opinion. personally there is no way id rank ward or martinez above pacquiao.

ward and martinez are obviously very good fighters, but fcuk me, way over rated.

[Gino Ros]

Pacquiao should be #3 behind Floyd and Ward, Martinez for beating 3 cab drivers in a row should not get rewarded.

Beating JMM>>>>>>>>>>> Chavez,BArker, and Mcklin combined!

How about LOSING to JMM and getting a gift decision? How does that rank?

[HeroBando]

Your whole second argument implodes on itself to be honest though. You said styles make fights yet bradley beats those guys so pac shouldn't fight them? That goes back to my saying of Floyd-JMM. Look my issue is it's been done before I wasn't saying he isn't calling himself, I'm just saying he's doing it purely for money. There are other interesting fights out there that CAN be made, see pac against some new competition that isn't old or way past it. There's no way you can say he has no options there are plenty to be honest. This goes back to topic on hand though, people drop pac because of his opponent selection / rehashing and questionable CWs, while looking poorly recently.

He should have fought maidana to be honest, and gain some credibility back with an exciting win. Pac-JMM will do nothing for his credibility unless he KO's JMM and dominates him. That's the argument I'm making when it comes down to why he's ranked under #2 p4p in a lot of recent lists. It's all opinion but recently everyones opinion was so high, don't think these are the only people who's opinion has changed. Regardless if you or I agree with it, it's a trend that isn't going to stop unless Pac can show us he's what he was a while back, not what he is now.

Right, I understand that Pac beating Bradley doesn't necessarily mean he beats his victims and such, styles makes fights. I honestly don't see any of them as having a better chance than Bradley, much less JMM, style wise or class wise. Maybe Khan, if he had more chin and smarts, or Matthysse with faster hands and feet, or Ortiz with more heart and smarts again, or...

IMO Maidana would be the biggest cherrypick since David Diaz. I disagree there's nothing to gain from JMM again, that's really the only fight Pac has looked bad in for a while. And not even that bad, better than in their first, and close to second. It's just that the expectations were so much bigger for him for the third, and he underperformed these. So he can redeem himself a little, or not.

Anyway, like you said, a matter of opinion. Some day Pac will fall out of the top 2-3 p4p legit (per me), and boxing will go on just fine.

[Grimgash]

Right, I understand that Pac beating Bradley doesn't necessarily mean he beats his victims and such, styles makes fights. I honestly don't see any of them as having a better chance than Bradley, much less JMM, style wise or class wise. Maybe Khan, if he had more chin and smarts, or Matthysse with faster hands and feet, or Ortiz with more heart and smarts again, or...

IMO Maidana would be the biggest cherrypick since David Diaz. I disagree there's nothing to gain from JMM again, that's really the only fight Pac has looked bad in for a while. And not even that bad, better than in their first, and close to second. It's just that the expectations were so much bigger for him for the third, and he underperformed these. So he can redeem himself a little, or not.

Anyway, like you said, a matter of opinion. Some day Pac will fall out of the top 2-3 p4p legit (per me), and boxing will go on just fine.

Maidana would be exciting though, which is what I said he needs to gain fans back to thinking he's a beast. Khan needs to work with his new trainer for a while and see how it goes. Lucas would be an interesting match up imo, while Ortiz would need some time to get back in the flow of things.

Anyhow I said my piece on why I feel #4 is justified though it was fun having a little debate over something real, kudos.