Flashback for you....PART 1...

[Larry the boss]

Yea, I remember when Mayweather lost to Castillo at the MGM...in Las Vegas, USA-MEXICO duel meet the night before Jones-Toney, November 1994...

Damn you got to witness both fights...im jealous

[SPREAD]

One aspect of boxing that I have always been very intrigued by is the results of amateur fights involving big name boxers that went on to become champions and contenders. Sometimes you see results of amateur fights and are amazed that they went much differently than you figured they would have. The national amateur tournaments are full of future champions and contenders and if you ever get a chance to go check one out then, by all means go do so because you will be seeing the future stars of boxing. I have been to many of these tournaments as both a boxer and as a coach and I also have dozens of amateur boxing magazines full of interesting amateur results to retrieve past results from for you to see.

I myself, for example, saw future world champion Roy Jones, Jr. when he was eighteen years old, Shane Mosley and Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson when they were sixteen and Clarence "Bones" Adams when he was just thirteen. I saw Lawrence Clay-Bey very early in his amateur career in local tournaments here in the Connecticut area and I was present at the same Golden Gloves tournament back in 1983 (as a spectator, not a participant) that featured a 201 pound sixteen year old named Michael "The Tank" Tyson.

It is also a source of interest for me, personally, because there are many boxers who didn't pan out for one reason or another as professionals and because of that, because of the fact that some of them turned out to be very average professional fighters, they don't get the respect I feel they deserve as boxers because many of them back in their days were tremendous amateur boxers who were looked at in the same light (at the time) as many guys who went on later to become superstars in the game. In other words, there were times when future stars like Rid**** Bowe, Roy Jones and Shane Mosley were not the top guy in their respective weight class and some of the guys who were actually rated above them back then are guys who you likely wouldn't recognize if they walked by you today on your own street.

A perfect example of what I am saying is reflected in the professional record of former undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. You all know the big names listed there, stars like Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Oscar DeLaHoya, and Jermain Taylor, all great former amateurs in their day, but those of us who know the deal are also impressed with his series of impressive wins over former top flight amateurs, Dennis Milton, Adam Garland and Roy Richie. Garland in particular was an elite U.S. amateur back in the early 1980's who many thought had the power and style to become a real force as a professional but, for whatever one of the million reasons that some guys don't pan out to full potential, he didn't make it to the heights that peers of his (at 165 pounds) like Virgil Hill and Michael Nunn did. B-Hop also scored professional victories over several other former top class U.S. amateurs including Joe Lipsey, Percy Harris, Willie Kemp.

Former top amateurs defeated Bernard in the pro ranks include Jones, Taylor, and Clinton Mitchell (in Bernard's pro debut).

It is also amazing and interesting to me that you can be at what might appear to be an average run of the mill tournament somewhere and you will have no idea who the guys on the show may or may not turn out to be in the future. Like the night of February 16, 1983 at the New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, for example, when bout number eight that night saw "Irish" Mickey Ward and Joey Gamache match up in a 132 pound bout while, bout number fourteen saw John Wilkinson defeat future IBF world title challenger Kevin Daigle and bout number twenty-one featured a fierce sixteen year old heavyweight by the name of Tyson.

So here we go with just some of the most interesting amateur fights from days gone by that I remember either seeing live or reading about:

In the finals of the 1976 National Golden Gloves (I have it on video tape), at 132 pounds, future great Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor won a decision over another future legend in Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns (back when amateur boxers didn't wear head gears). Later on, in the qualifying tournament for the 1976 Olympics, Aaron defeated future WBA lightweight champion Hilmer Kenty before losing a decision to Howard Davis, Jr. (in what was the second time that Howard defeated Aaron as an amateur). Pryor also scored a 1976 decision over future IBF 140 pound world champion Gary Hinton. Hearns went on to beat Bobby Joe Young twice in 1977 as an amateur and also defeated Ronnie Shields the same year while future world 175 pound champion Michael Spinks lost a decision in the 1975 National AAU finals at 165 pounds to future well known trainer Tommy Brooks.

The 1991 World amateur championship final saw future professional world champions Vernon Forrest and Kostya Tzyu match up at 139 pounds with Kostya landing more than a few solid and very accurate straight right hands on his way to capturing a solid decision over his much taller opponent. Also in 1991 Vernon won the U.S. Championships with consecutive victories over Terron Millet, Ross Thompson, Lamar Murphy and Stevie Johnston.

Vernon then turned around and had another spectacular week at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials where he defeated future world title challenger Robert "Push Up" Frazier, and a pair of future world champions in "Sugar" Shane Mosley and Stevie Johnston on his way to the championship at 139 pounds.

Vernon also once scored an amateur decision over future IBF welterweight champion Michael Piccorillo.

People know Chris Byrd as a former IBF heavyweight champion and some even remember him back when he was a 165 pound amateur in the 1992 Olympics. But I remember Chris way back when he was a 139 pound light welterweight amateur who twice lost in 1988 to Todd Foster. Once in the finals of the U.S. Championships and again in the U.S. Olympic Trials a few months later. Chris won a final round decision over future IBF junior middleweight champion Paul Vaden in that same tournament one year later (the 1989 USA/ABF championships) in the 156 pound class.

In what may be Byrd's most interesting, if not most pleasant, amateur result, he was once stopped (on an RSC) at 165 pounds by another future champ in Joe Calzaghe in a USA-Italy meet in December of 1992.

William Joppy lost by decision to Chris Byrd at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials at 165 pounds and he also fought, and defeated, Antwon Echols in the amateurs. At the 1992 Eastern U.S. Olympic Trials William scored a quarterfinal round decision over future cruiserweight contender Ravea Springs on his way to the gold medal at that tournament.

In the 156 pound final of those same 1992 Olympic Trials Raul Marquez scored a wide decision over future contender Antwun Echols, a semi-final win that week over future WBO middleweight champion Lonnie Bradley and a quarterfinal stoppage over future contender (and two-time Hopkins challenger) Robert Allen.

Another quarterfinal bout in the 156 pound class that week saw Bradley score a decision over future WBC 154 pound champion Keith Mullings.

Future heavyweight contenders David Izon (then known as David Izonretie) and David Tua met up in the 1992 Olympic semi-finals in the 201 pound division where Izon captured a decision victory.

Roy Jones scored decisions over future professional contenders and champions Derrick "Poppy Too Sweet" Rolon, NABF middleweight champion Fabian Williams, WBO junior middleweight champion Verno Phillips, Thomas Tate, Ray McElroy, WBC 168 pound champion Richie Woodhall of England (in the 88' Olympics) and Frank Liles (twice). RJ also lost decisions to Liles and Gerald McClellan.

McClellan beat Tim Littles in the finals of the 1987 U.S. national championships and defeated Roy Jones in the 1988 National Golden Gloves while losing (in other tournaments) to Thomas Tate, Frank Liles and, more than once, to Ray McElroy. Tim Littles lost three times to Liles (As pros they split two bouts) while defeating Michael Moorer twice and Antoine Byrd once at the 1985 Eastern Trials. Tim also defeated future world title challenger Dan Schommer at a mid 80's national tournament (Schommer himself had defeated the very formidable Bomani Parker in an earlier amateur event). Liles, meanwhile, defeated the likes of Jones, McClellan and Littles as an amateur. He also lost to Roy twice in subsequent rematches. It's kind of funny to think Liles defeated three powerhouses at 156 like Roy, Tim and Gerald while in 1987, at 147 pounds, he was outpointed pretty convincingly by the light punching welterweight Kenny Gould.

The Amateur Boxer, May 1987. U.S. Championships results:
"147 pounds. Frank Liles said after his match with Gould" "I just had an off day. I felt really sluggish." Well, Frank, even a g***** might feel sluggish around Kenneth."

156 pounds: Timothy Littles of Flint is a pretty boxer but a round and a half of Gerald McClellan's straight on, no nonsense hard punching took away his cuteness and his legs. Littles impressed with his boxing skills but he eventually wilted against McClellan's murderous punching."

this is priceless, keep it coming Scully.

[SPREAD]

One aspect of boxing that I have always been very intrigued by is the results of amateur fights involving big name boxers that went on to become champions and contenders. Sometimes you see results of amateur fights and are amazed that they went much differently than you figured they would have. The national amateur tournaments are full of future champions and contenders and if you ever get a chance to go check one out then, by all means go do so because you will be seeing the future stars of boxing. I have been to many of these tournaments as both a boxer and as a coach and I also have dozens of amateur boxing magazines full of interesting amateur results to retrieve past results from for you to see.

I myself, for example, saw future world champion Roy Jones, Jr. when he was eighteen years old, Shane Mosley and Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson when they were sixteen and Clarence "Bones" Adams when he was just thirteen. I saw Lawrence Clay-Bey very early in his amateur career in local tournaments here in the Connecticut area and I was present at the same Golden Gloves tournament back in 1983 (as a spectator, not a participant) that featured a 201 pound sixteen year old named Michael "The Tank" Tyson.

It is also a source of interest for me, personally, because there are many boxers who didn't pan out for one reason or another as professionals and because of that, because of the fact that some of them turned out to be very average professional fighters, they don't get the respect I feel they deserve as boxers because many of them back in their days were tremendous amateur boxers who were looked at in the same light (at the time) as many guys who went on later to become superstars in the game. In other words, there were times when future stars like Rid**** Bowe, Roy Jones and Shane Mosley were not the top guy in their respective weight class and some of the guys who were actually rated above them back then are guys who you likely wouldn't recognize if they walked by you today on your own street.

A perfect example of what I am saying is reflected in the professional record of former undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. You all know the big names listed there, stars like Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Oscar DeLaHoya, and Jermain Taylor, all great former amateurs in their day, but those of us who know the deal are also impressed with his series of impressive wins over former top flight amateurs, Dennis Milton, Adam Garland and Roy Richie. Garland in particular was an elite U.S. amateur back in the early 1980's who many thought had the power and style to become a real force as a professional but, for whatever one of the million reasons that some guys don't pan out to full potential, he didn't make it to the heights that peers of his (at 165 pounds) like Virgil Hill and Michael Nunn did. B-Hop also scored professional victories over several other former top class U.S. amateurs including Joe Lipsey, Percy Harris, Willie Kemp.

Former top amateurs defeated Bernard in the pro ranks include Jones, Taylor, and Clinton Mitchell (in Bernard's pro debut).

It is also amazing and interesting to me that you can be at what might appear to be an average run of the mill tournament somewhere and you will have no idea who the guys on the show may or may not turn out to be in the future. Like the night of February 16, 1983 at the New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, for example, when bout number eight that night saw "Irish" Mickey Ward and Joey Gamache match up in a 132 pound bout while, bout number fourteen saw John Wilkinson defeat future IBF world title challenger Kevin Daigle and bout number twenty-one featured a fierce sixteen year old heavyweight by the name of Tyson.

So here we go with just some of the most interesting amateur fights from days gone by that I remember either seeing live or reading about:

In the finals of the 1976 National Golden Gloves (I have it on video tape), at 132 pounds, future great Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor won a decision over another future legend in Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns (back when amateur boxers didn't wear head gears). Later on, in the qualifying tournament for the 1976 Olympics, Aaron defeated future WBA lightweight champion Hilmer Kenty before losing a decision to Howard Davis, Jr. (in what was the second time that Howard defeated Aaron as an amateur). Pryor also scored a 1976 decision over future IBF 140 pound world champion Gary Hinton. Hearns went on to beat Bobby Joe Young twice in 1977 as an amateur and also defeated Ronnie Shields the same year while future world 175 pound champion Michael Spinks lost a decision in the 1975 National AAU finals at 165 pounds to future well known trainer Tommy Brooks.

The 1991 World amateur championship final saw future professional world champions Vernon Forrest and Kostya Tzyu match up at 139 pounds with Kostya landing more than a few solid and very accurate straight right hands on his way to capturing a solid decision over his much taller opponent. Also in 1991 Vernon won the U.S. Championships with consecutive victories over Terron Millet, Ross Thompson, Lamar Murphy and Stevie Johnston.

Vernon then turned around and had another spectacular week at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials where he defeated future world title challenger Robert "Push Up" Frazier, and a pair of future world champions in "Sugar" Shane Mosley and Stevie Johnston on his way to the championship at 139 pounds.

Vernon also once scored an amateur decision over future IBF welterweight champion Michael Piccorillo.

People know Chris Byrd as a former IBF heavyweight champion and some even remember him back when he was a 165 pound amateur in the 1992 Olympics. But I remember Chris way back when he was a 139 pound light welterweight amateur who twice lost in 1988 to Todd Foster. Once in the finals of the U.S. Championships and again in the U.S. Olympic Trials a few months later. Chris won a final round decision over future IBF junior middleweight champion Paul Vaden in that same tournament one year later (the 1989 USA/ABF championships) in the 156 pound class.

In what may be Byrd's most interesting, if not most pleasant, amateur result, he was once stopped (on an RSC) at 165 pounds by another future champ in Joe Calzaghe in a USA-Italy meet in December of 1992.

William Joppy lost by decision to Chris Byrd at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials at 165 pounds and he also fought, and defeated, Antwon Echols in the amateurs. At the 1992 Eastern U.S. Olympic Trials William scored a quarterfinal round decision over future cruiserweight contender Ravea Springs on his way to the gold medal at that tournament.

In the 156 pound final of those same 1992 Olympic Trials Raul Marquez scored a wide decision over future contender Antwun Echols, a semi-final win that week over future WBO middleweight champion Lonnie Bradley and a quarterfinal stoppage over future contender (and two-time Hopkins challenger) Robert Allen.

Another quarterfinal bout in the 156 pound class that week saw Bradley score a decision over future WBC 154 pound champion Keith Mullings.

Future heavyweight contenders David Izon (then known as David Izonretie) and David Tua met up in the 1992 Olympic semi-finals in the 201 pound division where Izon captured a decision victory.

Roy Jones scored decisions over future professional contenders and champions Derrick "Poppy Too Sweet" Rolon, NABF middleweight champion Fabian Williams, WBO junior middleweight champion Verno Phillips, Thomas Tate, Ray McElroy, WBC 168 pound champion Richie Woodhall of England (in the 88' Olympics) and Frank Liles (twice). RJ also lost decisions to Liles and Gerald McClellan.

McClellan beat Tim Littles in the finals of the 1987 U.S. national championships and defeated Roy Jones in the 1988 National Golden Gloves while losing (in other tournaments) to Thomas Tate, Frank Liles and, more than once, to Ray McElroy. Tim Littles lost three times to Liles (As pros they split two bouts) while defeating Michael Moorer twice and Antoine Byrd once at the 1985 Eastern Trials. Tim also defeated future world title challenger Dan Schommer at a mid 80's national tournament (Schommer himself had defeated the very formidable Bomani Parker in an earlier amateur event). Liles, meanwhile, defeated the likes of Jones, McClellan and Littles as an amateur. He also lost to Roy twice in subsequent rematches. It's kind of funny to think Liles defeated three powerhouses at 156 like Roy, Tim and Gerald while in 1987, at 147 pounds, he was outpointed pretty convincingly by the light punching welterweight Kenny Gould.

The Amateur Boxer, May 1987. U.S. Championships results:
"147 pounds. Frank Liles said after his match with Gould" "I just had an off day. I felt really sluggish." Well, Frank, even a g***** might feel sluggish around Kenneth."

156 pounds: Timothy Littles of Flint is a pretty boxer but a round and a half of Gerald McClellan's straight on, no nonsense hard punching took away his cuteness and his legs. Littles impressed with his boxing skills but he eventually wilted against McClellan's murderous punching."

This is priceless, keep it coming Scully.

[Motofan]

Wow that was a fun read! Thanks for taking the time to share that John. But man, Im really trying to wrap my head around Calzaghe stopping Byrd!

[coghaugen]

Michael Spinks beat Lindell Holmes in the Olympic Trials.

Also Dan Schommer defeated Virgil Hill, and Ray Close beat Dariusz Michalczewski in 1986.

Tony Sibson defeated Herol Graham.

[coghaugen]

McClellan also beat Moorer

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

THE CUBANS:
The tiny island of Cuba has long had a reputation as an amateur boxing powerhouse and it is with good reason that they are seen in such light. The list of talented and accomplished Cuban amateurs that never turn professional is VERY long and former 139/147 pounder Juan Hernandez is very prominent on that list. Hernandez defeated Kostya Tszyu in the 1987 Junior World Championships and then bested #1 rated american light welter Nick Kakouris in 1987. In 1988 Charles "The Natural" Murray fell victim to Hernandez by way of a decision as did Englishman, and future world ranked contender, Robert McCracken, who fell to the Cuban by way of a second round knockout. Then Hernandez scored two early 1990's decisions over future Olympic gold medalist David Reid and a 1994 Goodwill Games stoppage of future WBO 154 pound champion David Santos. Hernandez' celebrated amateur career also saw him defeat future contender Ross Thompson and score two decision victories over Patrick Byrd (the younger brother of Chris).

Another special Cuban was 165 pounder Ariel Hernandez. Ariel defeated future contender Stephan Ouellette at the 1989 Junior world championships before defeating the trio of future world ranked contender Joseph Laryea, IBF Super Middle Champ Sven Ottke and future heavyweight champion Chris Byrd on his way to winning the 1992 Olympic Gold Medal at 165 pounds in Barcelona. At the 1993 World Championships Ariel defeated both Ottke and future middleweight contender Raymond Joval on the way to that gold medal.
Antonio Tarver won a decision over future 168 pound WBA Champion Byron Mitchell at the 1994 Golden Gloves and again at the Olympic Festival that same year. At a 1994 Cuba-USA dual meet Tarver lost a decision to future Cruiserweight Champion Juan Carlos Gomez

Cuban great Felix Savon scored stoppage wins over David Tua (first round), Andrew Golota, Shannon Briggs and Davarryl Williamson and decisioned David Izon, Nate Jones, future WBA heavyweight champion Ruslan Chargaev, and future WBO champions Ray Mercer and Lamon Brewster, and Michael Bentt. The Cuban also stopped and decisioned Kirk Johnson.

Cuban Super heavyweight Jorge Luis Gonzalez scored 1987 Pan Am Games decisions over both Lennox Lewis and Rid**** Bowe. Gonzalez also won the 1983 Pan-Am Games with a gold medal decision over the following years (1984) Olympic Champion Tyrell Biggs. On top of that, Gonzalez once scored a decision over fellow Cuban star Teofilo Stevenson. (Many knew already that Gonzalez had beaten Lennox as an amateur in those Pan-Am games but what most do not know is that only one week later, in the North American Championships, Lennox reversed the loss with a decision win in the finals.)

The 1971 Pan-American Games saw American heavyweight Duane Bobick cleanly defeat legendary Cuban Teofilo Stevenson. Stevenson on the other hand reversed the loss to Bobick later on in a different tournament, adding Bobick to a list of victims that includes future pro heavyweights Phillip Brown, Jose Ribalta, Tyrell Biggs (twice), Michael Dokes, Tony Tubbs, John Tate (at the 1976 Olympics) and Greg Page.

Cuba's very well regarded 165 pounder Bernardo Comas was a feared middleweight in the 1980's who defeated many top level boxers, including future two-time world champion Michael Nunn who ended up on the wrong end of an RSC loss in 1983.

Cuban Great Angel Espinosa defeated top Americans like Meldrick Taylor, Fabian Wiliams, Vincent Releford, Darin Allen and Jerome James. Espinosa also scored THREE unanimous decisions over future IBF light heavyweight Champion Henry Maske and, in the 1987 Pan American Games finals, Espinosa scored a decision over future WBO Middleweight Champion Otis Grant. In the 1986 world amateur championship tournament he beat future 168 pound contender Danny Sherry from Canada in the light middleweight class and he also defeated Otis' Brother, #1 world rated Howard Grant, at 139 pounds in the same tournament (1983 Junior Worlds) that he stopped Meldrick Taylor with a body shot in. Espinosa also scored a 1989 decision over future IBF 168 pound world champion Sven Ottke. (At one point in 1987, Espinosa was ranked Number 1 in the world at 165 pounds ahead of amateur stars like Henry Maske, Egerton Marcus, Joe Lipsey, Darin Allen and Sven Ottke).

John Revish scored a decision over future superstar Andre Ward at the National Silver Gloves in Lenexa, Kansas on February 7, 1998.

The only American I ever heard of that ever beat Espinosa was Bomani Parker (a.k.a. Parker White) in a 1986 CUBA-USA duel meet, no shame there, and Espinosa was thought of so highly by Otis Grant's coach, Russ Anber, that Russ told me once that Espinosa was the second best fighter he has ever seen fight in person... behind only Roy Jones, Junior.
1970's and 1980's era Cuban star Angel Herrera scored a 1976 decision over U.S. Olymian Davey Armstrong, a 1977 decision over future champ Rocky Lockridge and a 1978 decision over another future champ in Johnny Bumphus. Herrera's main nemesis as an amateur was U.S. 132 pounder Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker who defeated Herrera in four of their five meetings.

One more Cuban for you. Hector Vinent, a 139 pounds who between 1990 and 1993, scored decision wins over Sugar Shane Mosley, Oktay Urkel and Steve "Lil' But Bad" Johnston.

In the light heavyweight championship bout held in the finals of the 1979 New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Mass. its two participants were among the best boxers in the entire nation and it ended with Hartford's Kelvin Anderson winning a hard fought decision over New Bedford, Massachusetts boxer Andre McCoy to qualify for the 1979 national tournament.

Glad you posted this. I was about to ask ya if you ever witnessed any Cuban amateurs in your day. Very interesting stuff. I've always wondered how dominant or not dominant my fellow countrymen would be in the US as professionals if they ever had the freedom to make it here. The camps they run in Cuba are some serious stuff.

Ice you are a well of knowledge...bet you are a interesting person to kick it with

Can you picture yourself chilling with the Iceman and him just throwing all this stuff at you? I know I'd look like this:

It's crazy how some people are so succesful or unsuccesful in the amateurs and turnout to be the total opposite in the pros.

One more thing, is that Michael Tyson you talked about first, OUR Mike Tyson? 201 freaking lbs at the age of 16?!!?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

Ice you are a well of knowledge...bet you are a interesting person to kick it with

I can kick it it, Larry, definitely LOL

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

McClellan also beat Moorer

Yup, as kids...MM told me they were 125 pounds...

[sigrab]

Oh man Scully, this is priceless.

Thank you!