Comments Thread For: Another Anniversary Means Many Unhappy Returns

[bkflame]

fair article

First of all, I enjoyed your article. Very fair, I believe.
To all the author-bashers out there, I think ye're missing the point.
Anyone that has an interest in Ali knows he was far from being an angel. I am a big fan of his, but I think his behaviour towards Joe Frazier was totally unacceptable, he knows that, and he's gonna have to live with that til the day he dies (however far away that may be).
For me, the article was about the fact that Ali should never have been allowed near a boxing ring again, and much less by those who were supposed to be looking out for him. He had been a cash-cow for his "TEAM" for nearly 20 years, and unfortunately they lost site of their responsibilities somewhere along the way, especially Angelo.
I think Gene Kilroy should have been given a mention though. He walked away when he saw that Ali was on the slide health wise, and it makes it all the more unbelievable when Dundee & Co say they didn't realise he was so far gone.
Anyway. No, Ali was not perfect but that doesn't mean we cannot write about what happened to him that night, and the events that preceeded it.

Oh, and to anon2.0. To say that sport and atheletes are not inspirational is plain ******. Did you not see the Olympics, and the Paralympics this summer?

[The Commish]

Remembering Holmes v Ali

Great article, Fitz. I remember that fight like it was yesterday. Bert Sugar & I put out of special edition of The Ring, with 18 pages precviewing the fight. We did a page of predictions in that issue. My prediction read: "No great athlete deserves to go out this way. Ali will never be in the fight. It will almost be too sad to watch. Holmes will win it easy. My only question is whether Ali will be stopped while on his feet or flat on his back. Shades of Joe Louis vs Rocky Marciano."

After a TV interview I did prior to the fight, I received a call from an irate Angelo Dundee. In ther interview, I had said I wished something would happen to halt the fight, such as a minor injury to either fighter, and that Ali would then retire, never to fight again. I said that Ali was "badly-damaged goods." Dundee called me svery upset, wanting to know what right I had to say such a thing. He told me Ali was okay, that I am not in training camp with him to see that fact. I told him I don't have to be in training camp, that I can see all I need to see at press conferences and in the one-on-one interviews I had with him.

When I told Angelo that I intended to tell Ali I think he should hang up the gloves for good the next time I see him, Dundee made it harder and harder for me to get that one-on-one interview with "The Greatest."

Of course, Ali didn't stop there. One more fight remained. This time it was against Trevor Berbick. It was another sad night for boxing, another night of prolonged punishment that Ali certainly did not need.

During my years as New York Stater's Commissioner, when I prevented guys from fighting, I did so with Muhammad Ali entering the ring against Larry Holmes in mind.

I still applaud every commission which continues to do the same. Fighters need to be protected from their own bravery. I just wish somebody in his camp would have come to Ali's aid a few fights and a few years earlier.

-Randy G.

[jbpanama]

I wish people would stop putting Ali on top a pedestal and pretend he was more then what he really was. Being popular doesn't mean you'd make a good ambassador of the sport, and that's all Ali really was - skilled and popular. His life story isn't one that I'd tell people to emulate.

Why Not ...He had the Balls, to not go to the War, with Them Viet Gong...
Won the Gold at the Olympics, Put Boxing back, on the FRONT PAGES!!!
and was one of the ATG, Heavyweights!!!

[The Commish]

Nobody Left Camp Except...

Now that I think about it, one member of Muhammad Ali's camp DID walk away prior to Ali's fight against Larry Holmes. That man was Dr. Ferdie Pacheco. I don't recall if Pacheco's departure was right before the Holmes fight or a lot earlier, perhaps after the rematch against Leon Spinks. But I do recall having a lot of conversations with Dr. Pacheco, telling him how I can hear a change in Ali's speaking pattern. I even played tapes of Ali from interviews I had done before the George Foreman fight and after the rematch against Spinks, a period of only four years. Any could hear the difference in his speech. Dr. Pacheco said he used to beg Ali to hang up the gloves, but Ali told him, "I know what I'm doing." Finally, Dr. Pacheco left Ali, not wanting to be a part of what he told me was going to be "the ruination of that great man."

How right he was.

-Randy G.

[edgarg]

I wish people would stop putting Ali on top a pedestal and pretend he was more then what he really was. Being popular doesn't mean you'd make a good ambassador of the sport, and that's all Ali really was - skilled and popular. His life story isn't one that I'd tell people to emulate.

I'll never forget the ****** fuss he caused because his beautiful wife Sonya (I think) wouldn't walk 3 paces behind him, like a ****** wife. He divorced her over it. This showed his real character which was heavily laced with self-centred ******ity.

[tlarry]

Anyone With Ill-Feelings For Ali's Career, Simply Weren't Ali Fans

Claiming Ali was just popular and had a life story you wouldn't tell people, is like saying Martin Luther King just liked to hear himself talk. Ali fought during the toughest, most competitive era, in Heavyweight History. He was the original "Super Fight". He paved the way for the Leonard's, the Holmes, the Haglers, the Hearns', and on and on. Moreover he had the most courage of any man that ever stepped into the ring. He had courage like few others outside the ring. He took the sport from one end of the world to the other, fighting in countries we'd barely heard of. He took Boxing global. He took a stand for what was right in society. As a fighter, he fought the best of the best, in each's prime, multiple times, win, lose, or draw. Went to war with Frazier 3x, Norton 3x, Foreman, Shavers, Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Larry Holmes, tell me when to stop. He fought everyone. He didn't sit around crying who might get paid how much. He didn't have promoters or trainers finding him these easier route to the bank, protecting his record. His greatest quote in my opinion was when a reporter asked him before his first fight with Frazier, "Ali, what will you do if Frazier beats you?!!?" To which Ali replied, "I'll be out in the street the next morning screaming, NO MAN EVER BEAT ME TWICE!!!" He took on ALL comers. Ali was the greatest Heavyweight of all times, fought the toughest competition in Boxing History, and fought them multiple times. Nobody has done that since.

[T.Horton]

First of all, I enjoyed your article. Very fair, I believe.
To all the author-bashers out there, I think ye're missing the point.
Anyone that has an interest in Ali knows he was far from being an angel. I am a big fan of his, but I think his behaviour towards Joe Frazier was totally unacceptable, he knows that, and he's gonna have to live with that til the day he dies (however far away that may be).
For me, the article was about the fact that Ali should never have been allowed near a boxing ring again, and much less by those who were supposed to be looking out for him. He had been a cash-cow for his "TEAM" for nearly 20 years, and unfortunately they lost site of their responsibilities somewhere along the way, especially Angelo.
I think Gene Kilroy should have been given a mention though. He walked away when he saw that Ali was on the slide health wise, and it makes it all the more unbelievable when Dundee & Co say they didn't realise he was so far gone.
Anyway. No, Ali was not perfect but that doesn't mean we cannot write about what happened to him that night, and the events that preceeded it.

Oh, and to anon2.0. To say that sport and atheletes are not inspirational is plain ******. Did you not see the Olympics, and the Paralympics this summer?

Good post. along with Kilroy, I think Dr. Pacheco left Muhammad as well.

[T.Horton]

I'll never forget the ****** fuss he caused because his beautiful wife Sonya (I think) wouldn't walk 3 paces behind him, like a ****** wife. He divorced her over it. This showed his real character which was heavily laced with self-centred ******ity.

you're talking about crap that happened during the civil rights movement. get a grip.

vitali is number 1. ok?

[T.Horton]

and his wife's name was Sonji Roy. Know-it-all.