Vitali's ATG Ranking?

[damuttz112]

True, H2H He'll give any Heavyweight a tough day, but no career defining wins or all time greats and a very weak resume you can't put him in the Top 10 of an ATG List. Vitali is HOF bound. It is a technicality really.

[-Lowkey-]

Some of the posters I see ****ting on Vitalis resume are the same guys who will look at you as if you have lost your mind if you dare question Tysons resume or ATG status.

[Ray Corso]

jimmy1569; I don't think I've replied to one of your comments before and I doubt I insulted you soooooooooooo..................
tell me who have you personally trained and how long did you box? Where is your gym located and how long has it been opened?

Everyones has an opinion just like we have azzez, you just seem to speak from yours, fairly loudly too!! What I forgot about boxing you'll never know!
If you think Vitali is a great boxer/fighter you need to study some film of Joe Louis and see what style, form, substance, power, ability, methods, techniques are all about.
As I said this mans talent are minimal his height is his saving grace, theres NO Doubt about that!!! Ray

[jimmy1569]

jimmy1569; I don't think I've replied to one of your comments before and I doubt I insulted you soooooooooooo..................
tell me who have you personally trained and how long did you box? Where is your gym located and how long has it been opened?

Everyones has an opinion just like we have azzez, you just seem to speak from yours, fairly loudly too!! What I forgot about boxing you'll never know!
If you think Vitali is a great boxer/fighter you need to study some film of Joe Louis and see what style, form, substance, power, ability, methods, techniques are all about.
As I said this mans talent are minimal his height is his saving grace, theres NO Doubt about that!!! Ray

Since when does one have to have a gym or put on sparring gloves to be a knowledgeable fan of the sport... you wanna debate... bring it... you wanna hate.. i can deal with that as well... Could Joe Louis take a punch very very well? He's already inferior to him there & you have the size disparity also.... i mean we're talking 40lbs at least.. now you might say Haye is similar proportioned now... but did you see him to do anything with Klitschko or for that matter Valuev as well.. I know HAYE IS NO lOUIS but he certainly has the power & the speed.


My boy gives a great punch & most importantly takes a great punch... there are not too many that can do both GREATLY. Lennox Lewis for one.. Joe FRAZIER.. pleanty of alltime greats you perceive superior to Vitali have all tasted canvas from punches. Vitali Klitscko simply put stays in the pocket with his hands low waiting for you to bring it... he's ready for whatever comes his way & NEVER phocking stops throwing punches.. so where are his weaknesses... all you guys do is say how shetty he is... how his opponents .. suck...




LET'S HEAR ABOUT VITALI KLITSCHKO THE FIGHTER & HIS WEAKNESSES... this i'd like to hear... all i do is focus on his strengths... right? So ahow about one of you focus on his weaknesses WITHout the resume crap & EXCLUDING his opponents from the equation...... let's see how MANY of you become charlie chaplin... & please don't mention his soft tissue skin or injuries as ALL i do is bring that up as his sole weaknesses... what the opposition does or does not do is NOT IN VITALI KLITSCHKO'S CONTROL.. he does his business no matter who his opponent is... the sooner y'all realize this to be true the better all your boxing iq's will have been..... kapish!

[The Big Dunn]

Now that Vitali Klitschko's career is officially in the books, how does he rank among the greats? How will history remember Vitali's career? In your opinion, is he HOF material?

He will go to the HOF, but the hall will be weaker once he goes in. When your best victory is actually a 6 rd tko loss, you should not go to the hall of fame. Vitali has not beaten any HWT of substnce. He isn't an ATG in any sense.

[jimmy1569]

jimmy1569; I don't think I've replied to one of your comments before and I doubt I insulted you soooooooooooo..................
tell me who have you personally trained and how long did you box? Where is your gym located and how long has it been opened?

Everyones has an opinion just like we have azzez, you just seem to speak from yours, fairly loudly too!! What I forgot about boxing you'll never know!
If you think Vitali is a great boxer/fighter you need to study some film of Joe Louis and see what style, form, substance, power, ability, methods, techniques are all about.
As I said this mans talent are minimal his height is his saving grace, theres NO Doubt about that!!! Ray

Oh & one more thing... Vitali Klitschko's talent is minimal .. you say? Are you saying Vitali doesn't know how to fight or doesn't know hoew to fight properly according to the old school science? How many Kickboxing champions do you know of that have ever embraced a legitimate heavyweight belt strap? If Vitali doesn't know how to fight properly how is he the only one ever to amass the production he's garnered out of the hundreds of thousands of boxers who have come along the heavyweight division?


The object of the game is to stop your opponent... no one has done it more successfully than him (Briggs fight was a Tko.. so Marciano is asterisked & fought two more so it's mere percentages... the object of the game when you're in between stoppping your opponent is to win in the eyes of all the judges scoring your bouts..... again..... who has done this better... .. the object of the game is also to manage to stay upright when punches land on you.... who has done this better with as long a title reign? Shall i keep going i can find nearly twenty reasons or records that Vitali is the sole proprietor of in the heavyweight division.

[Ray Corso]

I don't HATE any fighters, I do know how to evaluate talent and I do know how to break a fighters talents down, it was my job for over 30 years and I did my job very well or it wouldn't have lasted that long!
Being a former manager, trainer, boxer, cornerman gives a huge advantage over someone like you who is a fan!! Thats not to say that your knowledge is meaningless but it isn't based on your actually experiences. No one is paying you for your expertize so I'd guess your abit limited, ya think!
His mind is working but his coordination is terrible, theres a reason men measuring 6'6" never did well in boxing and its because the sport actually makes a decent athlete look bad when their that tall.
Its not their (Bros.) fault that the division and sport in general is in shambles but to say that they are on the same level of past greats makes no sense when you can compare their abilities to boxers like Louis to Ali to Holmes and all the others. They remind me of a cross between Canera and Baer! They have size and decent power but without the size they'll be average at best. The opponents that face them don't have the basic talents to pressure them and land shots. When I do see them get hit I don't like the responce I see its an "alarmed" look that to me shows panic! Now maybe thats their immaturity in the sport because they don't have a wealth of knowledge gained by sparring quality men. The guys they fight are spar session type talents. Again that not their fault but that doesn't annoint them into the great heavies of the sport. The lack of technique that I watched the other night with Vitali was obvious, the reason he got away with such poor technique was his opponent was "waiting" for "something" to happen! When he started to "try" he got stopped on a cut! I saw hands drop after he punched I saw crossed legs and stepping over his other foot. I saw him profiling his face constantly. He would get bombed out of there against a Marciano, he would be stopped inside 5 rounds easily! He has no defense other than his height, once inside him he doesn't even know how to tie up and walk off. Limited knowledge in comparison to the greats before him. Ray

[Prince_Pugilist]

I think Wlad may be able to crack the Top 10, depends Although I don't see them doing anything much more significant, to be honest. Unless they eliminate Price, Fury, Wilder and Mitchell in the next few years.

I'd say Wlad has a very good chance of cracking the top 10 if he does what you say, fight and beat: Fury, Price and one of the American hype jobs.

[jimmy1569]

I don't HATE any fighters, I do know how to evaluate talent and I do know how to break a fighters talents down, it was my job for over 30 years and I did my job very well or it wouldn't have lasted that long!
Being a former manager, trainer, boxer, cornerman gives a huge advantage over someone like you who is a fan!! Thats not to say that your knowledge is meaningless but it isn't based on your actually experiences. No one is paying you for your expertize so I'd guess your abit limited, ya think!
His mind is working but his coordination is terrible, theres a reason men measuring 6'6" never did well in boxing and its because the sport actually makes a decent athlete look bad when their that tall.
Its not their (Bros.) fault that the division and sport in general is in shambles but to say that they are on the same level of past greats makes no sense when you can compare their abilities to boxers like Louis to Ali to Holmes and all the others. They remind me of a cross between Canera and Baer! They have size and decent power but without the size they'll be average at best. The opponents that face them don't have the basic talents to pressure them and land shots. When I do see them get hit I don't like the responce I see its an "alarmed" look that to me shows panic! Now maybe thats their immaturity in the sport because they don't have a wealth of knowledge gained by sparring quality men. The guys they fight are spar session type talents. Again that not their fault but that doesn't annoint them into the great heavies of the sport. The lack of technique that I watched the other night with Vitali was obvious, the reason he got away with such poor technique was his opponent was "waiting" for "something" to happen! When he started to "try" he got stopped on a cut! I saw hands drop after he punched I saw crossed legs and stepping over his other foot. I saw him profiling his face constantly. He would get bombed out of there against a Marciano, he would be stopped inside 5 rounds easily! He has no defense other than his height, once inside him he doesn't even know how to tie up and walk off. Limited knowledge in comparison to the greats before him. Ray

You ... my friend i'm sorry to say ARE beyond clueless when it comes to Vitali Klitschko. You can look at his technique till the cows come home & its's NOT going to look the same as a 6 ft 1 fighter. Vitali Klitschko fights the way he does BECAUSE HE CAN.... not because of necessity. He has his hands down for a reason... DOES HIS BROTHER DO THIS? Hell to the phocking no.. because his brother doesn't have the same fighting mentality.



Doesn't have the same defensive toughness or the same trust in his reflexes & most importantly.. same trust in his chin. His brother ties people up to get them off of him when not throwing punches... Vitali throws punches in bunches to get his opponent off of him & to create the proper distance so he can lanquish them with various shots throughout the bout until he DECIDES to stop them.


Now that you know the difference between the two brothers... i will proceed on your obvious boxing ignorance..... REGARDLESS of how much experience you have.... you are obviously biased towards both bros & use there height & boxing style so you can cut them down to size to feed your own warped agenda..


Promo Carnera & MAX BEAR can't carry either bro's jock strap & for you to insinuate that there clones of them after all they've accomplished shows me your credentials.. Rocky Marciano.. let's see him try to rush Vitali & NOT walk into something like Frazier did against Foreman.



Do we know what a 6ft 1 Klitschko would be like or do we want to send them into some kind of shrinking machine... let's do this with all the bigs of ANY SPORT & ELIMINATE BIG GUYS altogether since they have every single advantage in the book according to you. How many in this goddamn effin' sport have competed at least with the Klitschko's dimensions? Can you answer that for me? & then tell me how many have come anywhere near there success & mind you Wladimir has some weaknesses that Vitali DOESN'T.

DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT VITALI KLITSCHKO DID AGAINST LENNOX LEWIS... A FELLOW GREAT WITH SIMILAR SIZED PROPORTIONS. HOW MANY HAVE EVER GONE TOE TO TOE WITH LL IN THE FASHION THAT PANNED OUT? ONLY FREAKIN' KLITSCHKO & THERE'S A REASOM FOR IT.. IT'S CALLED FIGHTING HEART... BOXING SKILL & TOUGHNESS..



vITALI WOULD HAVE TO ADAPT A DIFFERENT STRATEGY ALTOGETHER IF HE WAS SHORTER BUT GOD GAVE HIM THE GIFT OF HEIGHT & HE HAS TAKEN FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. ADDED HEIGHT DOES NOT GIVE YOU INTANGIBLES IN TERMS OF BOXING KNOW HOW.. IT JUST GIVES YOU THE LUXURY TO DO CERTAIN THINGS SMALLER MEN AREN'T CAPABLE OF DOING.. HEIGHT DOESN'T FIGHT FOR YOU.


Vitali has an extensive background in kickboxing... his little bro doesn't & it shows in there style & toughness. Does Vitali look clumsy at times. OFCOURSE HE ****ING DOES.. he's 6 ft 8 for crying out loud.. he's supposed to look unorthodox... Esp. now as his legs are all but shot & yet he's still destroying everyone in similar fashion... his advantages in size are becoming minimized & he's getting hit more.. esp. in the last two bouts & his opposition STILL can't get anything done... DOES THIS NOT SHOW YOU HOW GREAT this man is.. He's 41 EFFIN' YEARS OLD & FACING YOUNG HUNGRY FIGHTERS & STILL SCHOOLING THEM.

YOU QUESTIONING vITALI'S JAW WHEN HE'S TAKEN EVERY SINGLE FLUSH SHOT IN HIS CARREER & BARELY EVEN FLINCHED IS THE MOST ABSURD THING I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE... YOUR THIRTY YEARS OF BOXING KNOWHOW BEING HANDS ON WITH FIGHTERS... you might have taught them a certain way of fighting... the brother's were taught differently.. they were taught to maximize there height.. size & strength advantages to the best of there ability & they have. Vitali Klitschko to me has the LEAST exposed weaknesses in heavyweight boxing history..



He knows how to fight... he can take a punch & punishment as well as giving sustained beatdowns to EVERYONE.. even when he's lost on cuts & shoulder separation he's winning handily. Vitali Klitschko HOLDS nearly 20 heavyweight boxing records by himself... how many has the closest runnerup have?




Not even a handful is your CORRECT answer.. respect this or don't.. i couldn't care less about your boxing ignorance but have to set you straight because your stuff is being read by other forum members. For a guy who's got 30 years of hands on boxing know how... you have no adaptability whatsoever & are basically oldshool & am pretty certain you're biased of the brother's success & how former greats had to struggle against each other.. We will NEVER see this type of dominance from two brothers ever again.. the likes of Vitali Klitschko sitting in the pocket & swatting everyone as if there annoying mosquitoes coming at him WILL NEVER BE SEEN again..





HE FIGHTS with his hands DOWN because he knows full well he can beat you to the punch... he measures enough distance between his opponent so he's in punching range & then fends you off WITH punches while relying on reflexes & leaning backwards to make it difficult for you to hit him. He's always prepared to take & absorb a punch if it happens to get through.. against Lennox he couldn't lean back because Lennox could reach him from a distance so he had to go toe to toe & gave more than he received sans the unfortunate cuts that halted the bout.

In closing... i think you get the point & if you don't it's your loss.. don't watch his fights if his technique irks you so much & most importantly don't undermine his boxing skills.. he doesn't fight like anyone else & because of this the RESULTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN ANYONE ELSE'S IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY!

oH & THE DECENT power bit tells me ALL I NEED to know about your credibility.... Most fighters have given up after just tasting a few hard jabs but you don't know anything about that... right?

[chloelloyd]

Lol..... copy & paste? Were you talking about your post. You A Lewis diehard. ain't you son? I must admit that was impressive & you were pretty much on the ball as i've watched Lewis fights as well when he became champion. I disagree with your Mccall II VERDICT...... he was in a zombie state as he walked into the boxing ring... tried to get a little adrenaline going (in other words trick himself into thinking.. perhaps he can KO Lewis again even in dire straights) He got discouraged after about two rds & started weaping not wanting to put the mental & physical effort that it would take to complete the bout.



For stretches he was taking Lewis bombs without even defending himself.... if I was Lewis i would've been embarassed to throw punches at a fighter who's NOT even pretending to play D.. while he did outbox Mccall for a a couple of rds... this W IS AS LEGIT AS Byrd's OVER vITALI... so claimin revenge when you were ktfo & then got retribution with a drug residued tko is NOT WHAT i call revenge.. What i do call REVENGE is the RAHMAN oNE .. THAT was EXACTING revenge in the same devestating manner.

Yes lennox beat some very good names but he also showed he was vulnerable in a handful of fights.. Holyfield II... HE DIDN'T earn.. Evander was the one catching him with the telling blows & was the aggressor. Yes Lewis dominated the first bout but didn't get the nod bu.. perhaps at worse both results should've been flipflopped. Lewis landed more shots than Holy & jabs & was more consistent late but it was Holyfield who took it to him & had him hurt as well on shaky legs in the 7th rd.


As for the Vitali fight..... Vitali was willing to die Not TO BE stopped by Lewis no matter what Lewis threw at him... was ALWAYS fighting back throughout the 6 rds.. so i do NOT agree with him being ko'ed in the further rds.. ofcourse anything could've happened but Vitali in the condition he was in couldn't be ko'ed without a doctor's hand in it.



Vitali has NEVER been stopped by a referee's call or when fighting was commencing. Lewis haD BEEN CALLED out twice by the referee & had tasted canvas respectively. This means Lewis was MORE experienced in that department... now ofcourse he had a little advantage with the condition Vitali was in..... but he received nearly 60 more blows to the head.. was dead tired & was the one exerting his bullets trying to ko Vitali & at that point you could say they were both dead tired & the stamina was almsot equall for both.. although Lewis was the one throwing the kitchen sink & Vitali was tieing him up & putting his weight on him right at the bell... so momentum.. stamina Klitschko's makeup condition... to be honest.. weighing all of it...


i'd say they would've come out even steven for the 7th with Vitali having the same physical handicap he had in the past 3 rds... nothing more & nothing less..



The fight.. despite Vitali's ginormous lacerations was fought at a 50/50 level when Vitali's cut became signifant.. this takes into account LL'S flurry at the end.. but when there was no cut it was being fought at 75/25 clip or 70/30 for Vitali.. Cut was valid for 3.5 rds.... & non existant for about 2.5 rds.. In other words about 60% of the fight.. Vitali was fighting with the physical handicap of bleeding in th eye region & still managed to be even with LL in that state.

Good Post


I will like to point out something though in regards to Vitali and 'era's.

First off can a Green Vitali beat a Tommy Morrison, a Frank Bruno, a Razer Ruddock, a Tyrell Biggs?
I say Yes.

Can a Prime Vitali beat a Prime Rid**** Bowe, Prime Holyfield, Prime Golota? I say at least 2-1.

Can a OLD Vitali beat a Prime Michael Grant, a Prime David Tua, a Ike etc. Possibly.

Maybe h2h Vitali beats them all. But take into consideration the damage he would have taken if he fought against a long line of punchers and Elite level fighters. Maybe Vitali would have beaten a Prime Bowe, but he would have taken a lot of damage in that fight, more damage then he ever took (bar the tko6). Now say he fights Holyfield after Bowe or even a Ruddock. That's more damage. It adds up, if Vitali was in the 90's era there is NO WAY he will still be fighting at 41 and look as good as he does now. No way. He would have had a much shorter career. So his longevity is in parts due to the fact he fought easier competition.
I actually like Vitali, reading your long posts is just interesting. So I will like to hear what you have to say about this.

Is his longevity and his success in the later parts of his career in part due to the fact so few of his opponents were elite fighters?

(There is no way you can justify that a Chris Arreloa was better in any shape or form then even a Andrew Golota or a Razer Ruddock in terms of talent)